Raising Heritage Goat Breeds for Milk

Transcript: Raising Heritage Goat Breeds for Milk

John Moore: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. Who’s ready to learn about goats? Whether you’re already a goat owner or are dreaming about getting some of your own one day, this is the episode for you. Kenny Coogan talks with Jon Kain, a goat owner and the co-host and creator of “Ringside: An American Dairy Goat Podcast.” We’ll be talking with Jon all about dairy goats, including raising and milking them.

This is Mother Earth News.

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John Moore: Our last fair of 2023 is coming up in West Bend, Wisconsin, September 16 to 17.

[00:01:30] Introducing Jon Kain

Kenny Coogan: Good day everyone, and we appreciate you for joining us on another exciting Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. I am Kenny Coogan, and joining me today is Jon Kain, co-host and creator of “Ringside: An American Dairy Goat podcast.” At Mother Earth News for 50 years and counting, we have been dedicated to conserving our planet’s natural resources, while helping you conserve your financial resources. Today we are going to learn about raising [00:02:00] and milking dairy goats. Welcome to the podcast, Jon.

Jon Kain: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be on.

Kenny Coogan: We are very excited to have you. And can you share with the listeners how long you’ve been keeping goats and what breeds you have and what your size of herd currently looks like?

Jon Kain: Absolutely. So I’m Jon Kain. I’m the owner of Hillaire Farm of Scott’s Circle. We’ve been raising dairy goats actually for a pretty short time. We’re working on our seventh kidding season next year. So seven years we’ve been in it. And we raise Obserhasli. We have some experimentals, which are just AKA registered mutts. We’ve had Guernseys in the past, which is a newer breed for dairy goats, and we’ve dispersed them. We’ve had Nigerian dwarf goats. We’ve dipped our toes with a few different breeds, but we really like our Oberhasli goats. So we’ve been sticking with them. [00:03:00] And yeah, we’ve got a herd right now of 11. We’ve cut down pretty hard and are kind of building our herd back up.

Kenny Coogan: For the experimentals, do you or should you keep records of the parents?

Jon Kain: Yes. So everything that we have is registered with the American Dairy Goat Association, so you can look back in my animal’s pedigrees. Right now I have three experimental goats, and one of them is 25% Nubian. And then another one is a daughter who’s, according to the ADGA records, is 13% Nubian. And then we actually have one remaining Guernsey- type experimental who is 50% Guernsey and 50% Oberhasli.

Kenny Coogan: And you’re able to show them?

Jon Kain: Yep. So right now the Guernsey goats are kind of in a weird place with the American Dairy Goat [00:04:00] Association, where they’re being shown on stamped duplicates of their registration applications. With the new system, they haven’t been able to be actually registered in the system yet, but you can still show them on that stamp duplicate. And same with any experimental.

Kenny Coogan: Now in the intro I mentioned that you have a podcast that’s pretty new. It’s called “Ringside: An American Dairy Goat podcast.” And can you tell our listeners what your podcast is about?

Jon Kain: Sure. So we started the podcast back in 2020. Me and a friend, Nate Funk, and we just kept it going. Since then, I have a new co-host, Danielle Carolei. We cover everything dairy goat. We do focus a little bit on the show side, performance programs, like linear appraisal, milk test. But we also talk to veterinarians, big breeders. We talk to judges. Anybody that’s excited about dairy goats, we talk to.

[00:04:56] Why Keep Dairy Goats?

Kenny Coogan: Very good. So speaking of that, why [00:05:00] should listeners consider adding dairy goats to their homestead or backyard?

Jon Kain: Absolutely. I mean, goats are awesome, right? I mean, I don’t know if you’ve been around dairy goats or any goat for that matter. They’re very personable, very awesome little animals that aren’t too terrible to keep.

It’s kind of like the step up from chickens. You know, you see a lot of people, they start out with chickens, and then they graduate to the dairy goats or the sheep and then go from there. And dairy goats are really personable. They’re not huge, so they’re manageable. Even for somebody that could be even older or have any issues.

The nice thing about dairy goats is, hey, you get milk. So you’re able to milk that animal, and you can do a lot of things with that milk. I think those are pretty good reasons why you should have them.

Kenny Coogan: Do you know what the largest dairy goat breed is?

Jon Kain: So there’s a lot of breeds that are trending up in size. Saanens [00:06:00] are, are the largest, along with, Nubians are, can be very big, especially the bucks. Those things can be massive. But if you’re looking for size, really it’s the Saanens, Alpines, and they’re gonna be like the big, big goats.

Kenny Coogan: So of course the larger the goat, the more space we need. But can you kind of give us an average of how much space would a dairy goat require and what would be the minimum herd to keep the goats happy?

Jon Kain: Goats need about 25 to 50 square feet of space. So you want, you wanna kind of keep it around that area. One thing that I see a lot, especially with some homesteaders, is there’s either a lot of area, which is awesome, or it’s gonna be kind of a, a smaller barn or small, smaller dry lot for them, or, or acreage. So you wanna try to keep it between the 25 and 50 square feet, and I suggest that if you’re gonna be building a barn or something for these [00:07:00] animals to build bigger than what you’re gonna get initially, because they’re like potato chips. You can’t have just one.

And as far as herd size, you wanna have at least two animals together. You know if, whether it’s a doe and a wether, a castrated male, two does, two bucks for some reason, if you like stinky boys just by themselves. You, you wanna have them together ’cause they’re a herd animal and they need to have that camaraderie.

Kenny Coogan: Is it common for people to just have adult females and lone males to, for breeding purposes?

Jon Kain: You don’t see people with just one female and one male too often. And I honestly, I don’t suggest that. The males going, the buck is going to pester the female quite a bit. He’ll eventually breed her and she’ll kid. And then after she kids, she can come into heat a couple weeks later and, and the whole process can start. And that’s not really healthy for the animal, so you don’t see it too often. A lot of [00:08:00] times what I’ll see with somebody’s starting out is they’ll get like one female and a castrated male, also known as a wether.

Kenny Coogan: And what’s the benefit of having a wether?

Jon Kain: We started out with a, with a doe and a wether when we got our first two Oberhasli, and the nice thing is, the wether, they don’t get stinky like a buck. Usually they’re the most personable animal in the herd, just because what else do they have to do besides be friendly? So there’s benefits there, and also a companion for your other female.

Kenny Coogan: Do they provide any like protection or they can be preyed upon,

Jon Kain: Not really.

Kenny Coogan: Just like the females?

Jon Kain: They just buddy up with the females. And you know, the nice thing is with wethers, you, if you breed the female to an outside buck or something and she has kids, you can also kind of rotate wethers. And I know not everybody eats goat, but they can also serve that purpose as well.

[00:09:00] What is Goat Milk Good For?

Kenny Coogan: [00:09:00]All right. So the main purpose for dairy goats is milk.

Jon Kain: For sure.

Kenny Coogan: Can you talk about the benefits of drinking or eating goat milk?

Jon Kain: Goat milk is delicious when handled properly. You hear a lot of times people say, oh, it’s very goat-y in flavor. I don’t like goat milk. Well, if you handle the milk properly, you’re not gonna have that goaty flavor. The nice thing about goat milk is it’s really digestible, right? So anybody that has like a lactose issue that, that milk’s really good for them to digest. And I have friends that have had goat milk and they’re shocked that they were able to have it with no issues. It’s packed with calcium. It’s got plenty of vitamins. It’s, it’s really a healthy choice if you can’t have cow’s milk.

And there’s the taste difference, when handled correctly, is by far, I guess you could say if you did a taste test, it would be kind of hard to tell. There are differences where the butterfat can be a little bit different depending on the [00:10:00] breeds of goats that we’re talking about, which we’ll get into. The nice thing about goat milk also is you can make goat cheese for yourself, for your family. Chevre is great. You can make goat milk soap, which we do, and it’s great for your skin. If you have bucks, it’s great for getting that buck smell out of your hands and arms or whatever. So, so there’s a lot of uses for goat milk for sure.

[00:10:22] Choosing Heritage Breed Goats for Breeding

Kenny Coogan: I’m really interested in these experimental goats. So, what should people look for when getting foundation stock, you know, regarding breeds. And then, do you recommend people breeding their own experimentals?

Jon Kain: I do. So I’ll get into that here. As far as getting into foundation stock, some things to look for are conformationally correct animals. And I’m not talking about somebody who’s in a homestead needs to get a show goat that can compete on a national level. But, you can go to breeders that breed, American Dairy Goat Association or AGS registered animals. And they might have an [00:11:00] animal that’s not show quality, but still has the parts where they’re not gonna fall apart over time.

So when you’re starting out, if you can find a breeder that has animals that might not be on their show string, but they’ll sell to you for a backyard milker, or that’s a win-win because those animals are gonna last a long time. That mammary system probably will last a while. Udder health is really important, which we’ll get into.

Foundation stock when you’re looking into breeds, that’s the fun part. Everybody should be able to look into what animals they want, what breeds they’re looking for. If you want the small Nigerian dwarf because you have a small space, that’s a really cool breed to get into. If you wanna get something that’s a little bit different, like a Lamancha that doesn’t have big pointy ears or long floppy ears. They’ve got gopher ears. They’re fun and they’re sweet animals and kind of goofy. You can get, if you want, a medium-sized goat, Oberhasli, Toggenburg. They’re really cool animals to get into as well, ’cause they’re medium size. [00:12:00] And if you want more production, you can always get a Saanen or Alpine. They really pump out the milk. Then if you want something that’s kind of goofy, maybe a little loud, don’t tell my co-host Danielle Carolei I said that. Floppy eared goats, Nubians, are, are your goat.

So there’s a really cool thing where you can just kind of decide what you like. It’s like picking a breed of dog that you like for your house, right? So as far as that goes, it’s the sky’s the limit.

As far as experimentals that you’re interested in, that’s where it gets kind of fun. So say you like Saanens, but you don’t want a huge Saanen. You, so you find something that maybe it’s a Saanen mixed with an Oberhasli. So you’ve got kind of a more compact Saanen but still has a lot more production. Or people go with the mini Dairy Goat Association, or registry, animals, and they get Oberhasli mixed with Nigerians that are registered and they’re a smaller but bigger than a [00:13:00] Nigerian.

Experimentals are pretty fun because the sky’s the limit for standard breeds. You can’t mix them with American Dairy Goat Association with Nigerian Dwarf goats. That’s a closed herd book. But for any of the standard breeds, people look into, uh, say, Toggenburg and Oberhasli mixes, not only because it’s a fun looking animal, but there’s also kind of like a hybrid figure with them. And they last a little bit longer. They’re kind of healthier just because there’s two total outcross animals coming together and creating this kind of superstar.

Kenny Coogan: I love how you listed like a lot of breeds and their traits. Have you noticed any traits that overpower, you know, when you’re breeding like the male to female, does that combination make a difference in like body size or milk production or heat tolerance?

Jon Kain: It can. So when I’m breeding certain bucks to certain does, it’s kind of, you’re kind of rolling the [00:14:00] dice. But at the same time, if you used a buck for enough seasons, you kind of know what he throws. So say you have a buck that you know has really well attached udders that he throws, and you have a doe that might not have a really well attached udder. It can help with that attachment rate, so you have a healthier udder for that mammory system, for that doe that is created.

As far as heat tolerance and all that, it kind of depends on where you’re at and what lines you’re using. If I’m going, I’m in New York. If I’m going to sell to somebody in, say, Georgia. And they’ve got high coccidia issues, worm issues. I’m gonna tell them, hey, I don’t deal with a ton of worms up here, I’ll worm when needed. I know down south it’s, it’s kind of a huge issue. So I don’t know what kind of vigor they’re going to have as far as worms go.

So if you’re in an area where you’re hot, [00:15:00] humid, a lot of rain, muck, and worms can be an issue. You might not wanna get something from Minnesota to bring down to Georgia. You might wanna look somewhere in the south with a herd that has built really healthy animals that can.

Kenny Coogan: So we’re talking about like different temperatures and different regions. Is dairy goat husbandry different than other goat breed husbandry?

Jon Kain: I believe so. When you look at meat goats, say Kikos or Boer goats, when you’re looking at those animals, a lot of times they’re kind of in a field. And they’ll have hay and, but they’re not getting a ton of grain unless they’re, they’ve got kids on their side. They’re, they’re just hay, water, and, and whatever they can forage. And they’re kind of “set it and forget it.” Dairy goats are a little bit different where they need a little bit more handholding, as I put it. Especially if they’re in milk and you’re milking them. They need a certain diet where you want alfalfa hay if you can get it or a really great second or [00:16:00] third cut grass hay. You’re gonna want to give them packed grain full of protein and vitamins and carbs and fat. Something that will be able to help them sustain their body condition throughout their lactation.

Where Boer goats, you’re not worrying about their lactation. As soon as the kids meet, they’re drying off and they’re good. So yeah, there’s, there’s a little bit of difference there. You can do the same thing with dairy goats as you do with Boer goats and have ’em in a field and, and have them raise their kids. But you’re gonna wanna definitely feed them a little bit different.

Kenny Coogan: Have you noticed their flavor of milk changing based on what they eat?

Jon Kain: Absolutely. So we have a lot of different types, types of weeds around here, but my goats especially like poison oak, poison sumac, all that good stuff. And lemme tell you folks, when you’re hand milking and you don’t know they got into the poison sumac, not a great time.

Kenny Coogan: That’s a [00:17:00] great tip.

Jon Kain: Yeah. But, but you can definitely taste what they’ve been eating. When I put my goats out to, usually towards the end of the season, once I have them go out onto a field and clear some brush, and I have some milk. I, I’m like, okay, that tastes a little bit weird. So I’m like, when they’re eating alfalfa and they’re on a dry lot eating hay, it’s definitely more of a, of a common milk taste instead of whatever they’re eating for the day on the field.

Kenny Coogan: If you put ’em out to pasture, does the milk flavor profile change like after a day, or do you have to change their diet, you know, for a week or two to really notice it?

Jon Kain: It’s usually like a day after. If I have ’em out there the next day I can, I can taste it, ’cause they’re making that milk right away. Every 12, 12 hours they’re getting milked.

Kenny Coogan: All right. We’re gonna take a quick break in our conversation to hear a word from our sponsor, and when we return, we will learn the best goat [00:18:00] breeds for milk.

[00:18:02] Mother Earth News Fair Online Ad

Jessica Mitchell: We here at Mother Earth News enjoy hosting in-person fairs, and you can see a list of upcoming locations at www.MotherEarthNewsFair.com. We are also excited to present you with the opportunity to get that self-reliant, can-do content for the whole family right from your own home. All you have to do is go to Online.MotherEarthNewsFair.com and sign up for your favorite programs.

John Moore: Our last fair of 2023 is coming up in West Bend, Wisconsin. September 16 to 17.

And now back to our conversation with Jon Kane….

[00:18:42] How Long Do Goats Produce Milk?

Kenny Coogan: ….goat farmer and co-host and creator of “Ringside: An American Dairy Goat Podcast.” So Jon, can you give us just a handful of some of your favorite or the most productive goat breeds for milk purposes?

Jon Kain: [00:19:00] Absolutely. So Saanens are going to be your Holsteins of the goat world. They produce anywhere, and this is just average, 2,500 to 3,500, but they definitely go up to 5,500, 6,000 on milk test with the American Dairy Goat Association. They really pump it out. And right behind them, and I mean right behind them are Alpines, whether it’s French Alpines or American Alpines, they pump out the milk too.

I will say for their size, the Nigerian dwarf goat is producing a bunch of milk, and their butterfat is right up there with Nubians. And they’re, they’re producing about anywhere from 1, if it’s a kind of a poor genetic line Nigerian, to 8 pounds a day. And that’s a lot for their little size when you think about the balance of the animal.

Kenny Coogan: How long do they produce the milk for? I, I’m sure it depends on the [00:20:00] breed.

Jon Kain: Yeah. It, it kind of depends on the animal and the breed. If you are milking them twice a day, every day, every 12 hours, people milk them through. So they’ll start milking them when they kid, and they’ll milk ’em all the way through for an extended year afterwards. So where most people are drying theirs off, say, in the winter before they kid in, say, 30 days before they kid, they’ll, they’ll keep ’em going. And that way, they don’t have to breed that goat again if they don’t need that many kids. But they can keep that production going. And they’ll keep ’em going for a year or two, then they’ll dry ’em off, breed ’em again, or have them bred and then dry off. And that kind of cycle continues.

So any breed will do that. How much they produce while you’re doing that depends on the animal and their genetics. But really the, the most powerful productor is Saanens.

[00:20:55] Raising Kids: Bottle-Fed vs. Dam-Raised

Kenny Coogan: All right, so a goat will have their kid, and then when can you start milking them? [00:21:00]

Jon Kain: So on our farm, our goats kid, and we, we bottle feed. So I know it’s a kind of controversial thing, right? But for our farm, for our purposes, for our animals, we bottle feed them. So we’ll let mom dry ’em off, and we’ll take them from mom, and we’ll milk the colostrum right then and there. You know, we’ll give mom vitamins, hot molasses water, let her bounce back, we’ll milk her, we’ll get her all set, and then we’ll go feed those kids that colostrum as soon as we heat treat it.

And so we’re, we’re milking ’em right from the get-go. Every day after that, every 12 hours, we’re milking ’em.

Kenny Coogan: And can you talk a little bit more about uh, dam raising and the, and, you know, and your viewpoint, versus battle feeding?

Jon Kain: Yeah. So, people dam raise, and even show homes, these people that register with the American Dairy Goat Association, they, they dam raise. Or they’ll kind [00:22:00] of co-raise the kids, where they’ll let the kids stay on the mom, but they’ll still milk the mom so it keeps the udder level, because sometimes kids decide they like one side and not the other. So to stave off any infection, they’ll co-raise and milk that mom. And then there’s also people that just let the doe do whatever she wants, raise the kid, let them do their thing, and have fun. And that’s great. I love that. I wish I could do that. But with, what the purpose for our farm is, it’s just not feasible.

So we bottle raised our kids for many reasons. One is we heat treat the milk. So we pasteurize the milk. And the reason for that is to stave off, say we pick up CAE from a show or, or any bad diseases, that’s gonna keep that with the dam but not give it to the kid, ’cause we’re pasteurizing that milk and getting rid of all that bad, icky stuff.

Another reason why we bottle raise is because the kids kind of tend to [00:23:00] be a lot sweeter, more in your pocket. It can be a detriment when you’re at a show and you’ve got a kid that’s trying to find food in your pocket instead of paying attention to what’s going on, but they’re easier to handle. I don’t have to catch them. There’s no wild goats that are there jumping off the roof of the barn.

Funny story is, when we got our Guernseys, we got them from a legendary Guernsey breeder who helped this breed get to where they are. Joan Stump. And Joan is an older woman who has a lot of kids born every year. So what she does is she feeds the kids bottles, but instead of holding the bottles with ’em, she just puts ’em in the tray and walks away. So we go to pick up our first foundation two does from her. And everything’s great. You know, we catch the kids, they’re good to go. We get ’em home and they are like deer. They’re, because they’re not used to being cuddled or pet while they’re being fed the bottle. They’re just used to human brings the food and they walk away and [00:24:00] we don’t mess with ’em. So it took a while for them, and I mean a while for them, to calm down. It took until they were 2 year olds , for them to really calm down. But, but it’s just with that, it kind of made me realize, okay, I definitely am bottle raising the, these kids for a reason because I can’t deal with wild animals like this.

[00:24:20] What to Know to Milk Goats

Kenny Coogan: So for some backyard hobbyist farmers and people who are, who wanting to take the leap from chickens to goats, it might seem like a big step in husbandry. What are the essential or basic pieces of equipment that you need to milk a goat?

Jon Kain: Absolutely. Well, first thing, get the goats, which we covered. Second thing, well actually first thing is set up your, your place for goats and then get the goats. So for goats, what you’re gonna wanna do is make sure that you have good fencing, and it doesn’t have to be million dollar beautiful fencing and, you know, no-climb woven wire. That’s ideal. [00:25:00] But a lot of people, especially with homesteaders, we love Premier One, right? Premier One’s got those woven wire fences that you can hook up to the to the electrifier and turn it on, and there you go. Electricity is going to be your friend with goats. Let me tell you.

I run on my farm a four wire fence, and it’s a hot wire. It’s great for standard goats, it’s terrible for Nigerians when we had ’em. They got out constantly, and it was just like, oh, they’re out again. Oh, wave to ’em. Okay, good. Right. They didn’t go anywhere, but it was just kind of a pain. So you want a hot fence that’s going to withstand them. We have total opposite fencing for our bucks, right? We started out with poultry on our farm. We started with chickens and ducks, and once we got rid of the chickens and ducks, because we were tired of cleaning eggs and selling ’em. We were like, we’re gonna get goats. So when we got our bucks, we were like, okay, let’s fix up this duck [00:26:00] pen, because the barn for the ducks was big enough that we can throw them in there. And the fencing was okay, right? It was kind of like no climb. It was welded wire, really, fencing. Since then, the bucks when they’re in rut are terrible on fences. And this is where the homesteader side comes in. I realized that electric fencing, when they’re in rut, doesn’t really work the best. And it’s kind of hard to do when you’re getting tons of rain and, you know, the wire’s getting grounded on something ’cause it’s kind of in a woodsy area. So we built, the homesteader way, a pallet fence, and it keeps ’em in. And every once in a while we’ll have to grab a pallet out and put a new one in. But that’s way cheaper than building Fort Knox. And let me tell you, you’re gonna need it for a buck in a rut.

Kenny Coogan: Yeah. Very economical. The pallet fencing. What equipment do you need to milk a goat? Just your hand?

Jon Kain: Yeah, I use my hand. I, I [00:27:00] only have four does in milk this year, ’cause we sold out our Guernseys and everything.

So four. Hand milking is great. I haven’t even whipped out the milk machine because it takes longer to clean that than just clean a bucket. So hand milking is where we started, and that’s where we usually end up being by the time we sell down to our numbers that we want. And that’s a, your hands are a great tool.

Some people can’t hand milk because of various reasons, whether carpal tunnel or anything like that, especially if you’re milking a ton of goats. So there’s plenty of milk machines out there for anybody to look up, and I suggest, it’s kind of like picking your breed. You’re gonna pick one that suits you best.

The one thing I will say is I see a ton of milk machines out there that do not pulsate. That is terrible for the health of that goats teat and udder. It’s gonna cause a lot of damage. I know it’s really cool to squeeze the thing and, and it goes right up and, and the milk comes down, and it looks great. I’m gonna tell you right now, it’s painful [00:28:00] to, to watch. I’ve seen plenty of videos. It’s, it’s might be a cheaper option for you, but it’s gonna be more expensive in the long run with the damage you’re gonna cause to that goat. So whether you get a Capralite machine or a old used any machine out there, make sure it’s got a pulsator, and make sure it works, and make sure it’s hitting the right PSI, which should be anywhere from 11 to 12.

Kenny Coogan: Very good. Now, you mentioned pasteurization for the kids, but for human consumption, do you have to, or do you filter or pasteurize the milk?

Jon Kain: I love raw milk. I grew up on a dairy farm with Holsteins. I love just, if I could, I’d have a bulk tank that was chilled and just go grab a Mason jar and, and fill it up, right? Like I used to. I don’t have that many goats, don’t need that. So what we do is I hand milk, and I bring out a little bucket that’s got ice in [00:29:00] it. I put the bucket in while I’m milking, so it’s starting to chill the, the milk right away. ‘Cause that’s the key to getting the goaty flavor out of goat milk.

So what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna milk your goat, bring it inside, and then on Amazon you can buy the filters. And you can either put it on a, a strainer or whatever. Just pour the milk in into a Mason jar, and it, it’s getting filtered right away. And then what I do is I throw it in the freezer, actually, for another 15 to 20 minutes to let it cool even faster. And then we’re good to go. So I like raw milk. People will pasteurize milk, and just like for the kids, what we do is we throw it on the oven at 150 degrees for 30 minutes. You wanna keep it at that 150, and that’s gonna pasteurize the milk.

Kenny Coogan: You have four milking does? You set ’em up. How long does it take to milk ’em and do whatever you need to do to the milk?[00:30:00] You’re doing it every 12 hours, but like how long is each process?

Jon Kain: I will say, definitely invest in a milk stand, whether if you build it yourself or buy it from any place. So we have a couple different options here, but to milk our goats for our four, I milk at 11:00 AM and 11:00 PM. And just with my work schedule, that’s how it works.

So it takes me to milk those four does about 20 minutes, 25 minutes. Sometimes longer. If I have a doe that’s kind of a heavy producer, I let them take their time eating their food on the milk stand. And it could be, I could be waiting 15 minutes for that doe. It depends on which animal it is. I have another one that she looks at air and gains weight. It just totally depends. So anywhere from, I, I’d say average 20 minutes.

[00:30:56] Using the Goat Milk

Kenny Coogan: You mentioned that you can make soap and cheese, or [00:31:00] you could just drink the milk. Do you have a favorite place to go for soap or cheese recipes, or are you using the same, you know, two recipes over and over again? Do you experiment?

Jon Kain: My wife’s the soap maker, and I’ll tell you right now, she goes on Pinterest, she goes, she gets ideas from just looking at anything online. And she, she gets all the oils that she needs and, and makes it up and she does a great job. So I’m totally hands off with that. I think she’s worried I’m gonna burn myself or something. I don’t know. As far as cheeses, there’s awesome cheese groups on Facebook that you can join. There’s a lot of really awesome recipes on there. I mean, people are adding crazy, they’ll add ghost peppers and you’re like, oh, that’s gonna be terrible. Delicious, delicious. You know, people are making ice cream out of the milk. And it’s, there’s just cool recipes. So I suggest anybody that gets dairy ghosts to definitely join different [00:32:00] Facebook groups about goat milk, and you’ll find some pretty cool recipes on there to try.

[00:32:05] Potential Issues When Milking Goats

Kenny Coogan: I do need to go back to milking the goats. Are there reoccurring health problems or like what are some like pitfalls that could happen when you’re milking?

Jon Kain: There can definitely be reoccurring issues when milking your dairy goats. And it’s all about your management style. If you’ve got a lot of mud around your place, you’re definitely gonna wanna keep an eye out and kind of keep where they’re bedding down clean especially, but keep the areas where they’re at clean.

I know mud’s a huge problem. But you don’t need a ton of mud and dirt and other stuff on your milk stand while you’re milking and all that good stuff. So it’s really important when you get that doe on the milk stand, you wipe down those teats, and that’s cleaning off any bacteria. I do a pre-dip with iodine dip, where I’ll dip the teats [00:33:00] and then wipe ’em down again. And that’s just to ensure that they’re really clean. And then I’ll, I’ll strip out a couple squirts onto the ground, usually for my cat. And I’ll milk them out. And then again, I’ll take Fight Bac and I’ll spray their teats again. And that’s just to re ensure that everything’s clean. Cleanliness is key. The issue with that, if you’re thinking, why does that matter? They can get mastitis. And mastitis can be a reoccurring issue, or it can even turn into gangrene mastitis, where it’s a terrible infection. They’ll lose either the whole udder or half the udder, they can die. It gets pretty nasty. So udder health is with dairy goats is by far like your main concern. You wanna keep that goat healthy.

[00:33:47] Heritage Breed Goats for Beginners

Kenny Coogan: All right, Jon, the last question. For listeners who want fresh, spicy, jalapeno goat cheese, but they might be thinking it’s more trouble than it’s worth. Do you have some inspirational [00:34:00] words about keeping dairy goats and to get these people to, you know, go off the ledge and take the step into starting dairy goats.

Jon Kain: Well, I think especially for like the homesteader crew out there, people that want backyard goats, or you know, livestock, whatever, they get kind of scared off by the YouTubers that have tried goats and it didn’t work for them. And so they’re telling you, stay away from ’em. They’re terrible. It’s not the case. There, there’s definitely livestock animals for each person, right? Now, I’m not a Boer goat guy. I’m not a cow guy. I’m a dairy goat guy. That’s what I’ve chosen. I’ve gotten rid of chickens and everything else because that’s what works for me. So there’s going to be an animal that works for you, and dairy goats are easily, probably one of those animals. They’re easy to keep as long as you keep ’em healthy. That’s the thing. They’re not a “set it, forget it” like a meat goat. They need to be taken care of. It’s supposed to be a relationship with the [00:35:00] animal, right? You, you work with them every day. You create this bond.

It’s really fun. That’s the thing with farming, it’s supposed to be fun. You’re supposed to enjoy going out to that barn every day. And with these dairy goats, it’s not just a meat thing, which, hey, we didn’t even mention. If you get Nubians, they’re kind of a dual purpose breed, so you get the best of both worlds.

These dairy goats also give you milk. And I mean, my daughter, dairy goats give you milk and hey, they’re really easy to get along with. My daughter is too, and she goes up and helps me with chores, helps me with feeding babies. It’s a family experience, and it’s, it’s really just enjoyable. I think everybody should. Even if you’re on the fence about it, don’t just look on YouTube and see what’s going on. Go out to and find a goat farm. See if you can call ’em up, make an appointment to go help them with chores, meet their animals and, and see if you [00:36:00] like ’em that way.

Kenny Coogan: I appreciate you saying that farming should be enjoyable and fun. And earlier when you were mentioning that you milk them at 11:00 AM and 11:00 PM I was thinking, those two times would be like really nice to have like a little meditation moment and just like a quiet, peaceful activity that also provides food for your family. And you could also make money from doing that.

Jon Kain: Absolutely. You know, my grandma used to yell at my grandfather back in the day when he was milking his Holsteins, and he wouldn’t make it to Sunday service. She would say, you need to go to church more often. They lived on a big farm up on a hill, and he said, every morning I go to church on the hill, and that’s what I do in my barn with the dairy goats. It’s my meditation. It’s my moment for me.

Kenny Coogan: Well, thank you so much, Jon, for speaking with us. Our conversation on dairy goats has been very educational and inspirational. Thank you.

Jon Kain: Thank you.

Kenny Coogan: We thank you, the listener, for joining our [00:37:00] podcast and encourage you to share it with your friends, colleagues, and family. To listen to more podcasts, visit our website, www.MotherEarthNews.com. You can also follow our social media platforms from that link and ask questions for future podcasts.

And remember, no matter how brown your thumb is, you can always cultivate kindness.

[00:37:23] Podcast Credits

John Moore: You’ve just heard our episode about dairy goats. You can reach us at Podcast@OgdenPubs.com with any comments or suggestions. Our podcast production team includes Jessica Mitchell, John Moore, Kenny Coogan, and Alyssa Warner.

Music for this episode is “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw.

This Mother Earth News and Friends podcast is a production of Ogden Publications. Learn more about us at www.MotherEarthNews.com.

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John Moore: Our last fair of 2023 is coming up in West Bend, Wisconsin, September 16th to 17th.

Until next time, don’t forget to love your Mother.

Additional Resources

• Ringside: An American Dairy Goat Podcast
• Connect with Jon on Facebook @RingsideHosts and Instagram @ringside_goat_podcast
• Goat Journal’s Guide to Keeping Goats
• Learn more about goats from our sister publication, Goat Journal

 Our Podcast Team:

Jessica Mitchell, John Moore, Kenny Coogan, and Alyssa Warner
Music: “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw

Listen to more podcasts at MOTHER EARTH NEWS PODCAST.

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The Mother Earth News and Friends podcasts are a production of Ogden Publications.

Ogden Publications strives to inspire “can-do communities,” which may have different locations, backgrounds, beliefs, and ideals. The viewpoints and lifestyles expressed within Ogden Publications articles are not necessarily shared by the editorial staff or policies but represent the authors’ unique experiences.