Edible Insects for Pets & People

What comes to mind when you think edible insects? In this episode, we are going to address some of the concerns or aversions to eating insects people may have, and talk about why and how you can incorporate edible insects into both your diet and your pet’s diet. Podcast team member Kenny Coogan chats with entomologist Dr. Bill Kern and CEO Anne Carlson of the pet food and treat company Jiminy’s. This is Mother Earth News.

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[00:01:37] Introducing Bill Kern and Anne Carlson

Kenny Coogan: Good day everyone, and we appreciate you for joining us on another exciting Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. I am Kenny Coogan, and joining me today is entomologist Dr. Bill Kern and Anne Carson, founder and CEO of Jiminy’s Pet Food. At Mother Earth News for 50 years and counting, we have been dedicated to conserving our planet’s natural resources while [00:02:00] helping you conserve your financial resources. Today we are going to discuss edible insects for people and their pets.

Dr. Bill Kern’s area of expertise includes urban entomology, Africanized honeybee management, nuisance wildlife management, and medical and veterinarian entomology. Anne Carlson has spent her entire career working for consumer brands across many categories. Seeing a niche for a sustainable pet food, she started Jiminy’s. Welcome to the podcast, Anne and Bill.

Dr. Bill Kern: Thank you very much.

Kenny Coogan: We are excited to have you. And, uh, this might be hopefully not off-putting to the listeners.

[00:02:42] Why Eat Edible Insects?

Kenny Coogan: So Bill, why would somebody want to even think about eating an insect?

Dr. Bill Kern: One thing about insects is that they are an entire organism, so you get all the nutrition that you need. From an environmental point of view, the amount of [00:03:00] grain that you would feed to, to produce, say, one pound of, uh, beef, um, you could probably generate 10 to 15 pounds of meal worms or crickets. So you can, it’s actually much more sustainable, uh, to produce animal protein by insects, um, than it is for vertebrates. And the main reason for that is vertebrates burn up a lot of the, the energy that they take in to maintain body temperature. Insects don’t have that problem. So they put much more of the food that they eat into body growth.

Kenny Coogan: Bill, why do you think Americans are so resistant to eating insects? The podcast mostly serves North America, but I know around the world people are eating insects.

Dr. Bill Kern: Right. And part of the problem is that, um, Americans have been raised that [00:04:00] insects are a food contaminant. It’s not something that you would normally eat. It’s usually an indication that the food has gone bad.

Other parts of the country or other parts of the world, that’s not the case. In some cultures, especially in some of the, Asian cultures. insects also are part of their traditional medicine as well as sort of everyday food items.

Kenny Coogan: And Bill, are all insects safe to eat? Can our listeners go out in the backyard and dig up a earth worm or insect or an arachnid and snack on them?

Dr. Bill Kern: Not all insects are safe to eat because some insects feed on toxic plants and then they sequester the poisons in themselves and they use that as protection against predators. So we don’t want to eat those insects because they could either poison us or they’re gonna taste very bad. So we want to, you wanna be sort of selective about what you eat.[00:05:00]

Uh, and the other thing I always suggest is, because insects could possibly be intermediate hosts for, for some parasites, it’s always a good idea to cook any insects that you’re going to eat.

Kenny Coogan: So Bill I —

Anne Carlson: There are over 2,000, uh, types of edible insects though, right, Bill?

Dr. Bill Kern: Oh yeah. Probably, probably much more than that. For virtually all of our biological history, uh, humans and our predecessors, insects were an important part of their diet because it was a source of both protein and fat that, you know, the hunter-gatherer would come across while they’re collecting plant material. And so it was a valuable resource for virtually our entire, um, biological history.

Kenny Coogan: I just watched the early 2000, uh, movie, “The Mummy” and “The [00:06:00] Mummy Returns.” and the scorpion king, he chomped on a scorpion. And I know we’re talking about edible insects, but I keep throwing in arachnids and, uh, other things. So I’ve seen scorpions being served on like a skewer in other, uh, foreign countries. Does the preparation of them get rid of the venom, and do people eat other insects and arachnids that have stingers?

Dr. Bill Kern: Yeah, it’s, you know, for example, uh, wasp larvae, uh, honeybee larvae are often eaten. But of course, the larvae don’t have a stinger. For things like scorpions and large spiders, um, when they’re, when they’re cooking them, it’s probably going to denature, uh, the proteins in the venom. So it’ll become safe to eat.

And usually they’re, yeah, usually when you see things like scorpions or spiders, they’ve been usually roasted over, um, a small fire.

[00:06:54] Jiminy’s: Insect Protein Pet Food

Kenny Coogan: So Anne, we kind of, uh, teased that your company is called Jiminy’s, but we didn’t really [00:07:00] mention who you’re serving and what you’re serving. So can you talk about why you decided to start making, uh, a pet food out of insect protein?

Anne Carlson: Uh, sure, you bet. Well, uh, you know, I, I was in the pet food industry, um, and the company I was working for got acquired. And so as I was trying to decide what I wanted to do next, my daughter actually, we, we were talking, and she told me that she didn’t wanna have kids. It really hit me hard. She was worried about what the world was gonna be like by the time those kids grew up. She was talking about climate change, and I realized I couldn’t just do a normal job after that. So, um, I changed direction and my pivot was to sustainability and pet. I didn’t have the insects in my head at that point. I started out just kind of looking around, trying to, to understand the lay of the land and what we could do, uh, to reduce the, the impact of our pets. Cuz 25% to 30% of [00:08:00] the environmental impact of meat consumption in the U.S. is due to our dogs and cats. They eat a lot of protein.

As I was poking around, I saw the UN study that said insects could be the answer to world hunger. I ordered some crickets online, fed ’em to my dogs. The drools started immediately. So I knew that I had something that they would like, but there was a lot of work that had to be done, um, after that in order to really launch the products. Now we’ve done that work. We do, we invested in the science behind this, proof that the digestibility and all of those types of things. We’ve got a complete line of products, uh, right now for dogs, uh, that hit all the different day parts. So we’ve got food, we’ve got treats, we’ve got different types of treats, training treats, biscuits, you name it.

Kenny Coogan: Can you talk a little bit more about is it safe for dogs to eat only treats and food that are made from insect protein?

Anne Carlson: Yeah. That, that was actually one of the first questions that I had was, uh, [00:09:00] around the digestibility.

And so that was, uh, the very first study that we did. You could see on paper that it had all of the nutrients that the dog needed, but there was still that question, will they be able to digest it? The great news is, is that it is as digestible as chicken or beef for the dogs. And it’s also prebiotics, so it feeds the good bacteria in the dog’s gut.

So there’s these benefits that go beyond just a protein source for the dogs. We’ve now done long-term studies, um, they just thrive on it. It’s amazing.

Kenny Coogan: And right now you’re only doing, uh, dog treats and food. But can you talk about cats? Are they in the pipeline? Can they also only eat insect protein?

Anne Carlson: Yeah, I’m actually really excited about cat. We’re not there yet. There’s, um, so a, a lot of the work that we do, um, these studies, they get submitted to the FDA and then we go through an approval process. And the [00:10:00] insect protein is still going through the approval process for the cats. But I’ve seen all of the results of the studies and it looks fantastic.

It’s digestible for the cats. Um, it provides the nutrients that they need. It even has taurine, uh, which is a requirement for cats. It’s like one of those amino acids that’s really important for them. So a natural source of that. So, super exciting. And also talk about biologically appropriate. In the wild, cats will eat up to 60% uh, up to 60% of their diet will be insects. So, um, so it’s, it’s really exciting.

[00:10:36] Popularity of Insect Protein Pet Food

Kenny Coogan: Now, Anne, the dogs and the cats are not purchasing your products. Do you find people are open to the idea of their pets eating treats in food made from crickets? Because I’m not eating it. I would imagine they’re just like, oh yeah, I’ll try it.

Anne Carlson: Well, at the beginning there was a lot of education that had to happen, but you know, things are really changing and, um, [00:11:00] Millennials and Gen Z now make up about 50% of pet parents in the U.S. It’s a huge number, and these younger consumers, they all went through and did their carbon footprint in school. And so when we say we’re reducing the carbon paw print, they get it and they are really open to this kind of solution and not afraid of it.

Uh, the other thing about this is that we solve so many problems. So if your dog has an allergy, it’s like hotspots, itching. If it has chronic diarrhea or it’s farting all the time. Uh, bad breath. These are all things that, um, the insect protein actually solves for. So we’re finding a lot of people who might have been a little squeamish about it coming in because it solves the problems that their dogs have.

Kenny Coogan: So that’s good for the farting dogs and, and their, uh, owners or their caretakers.

[00:11:58] Environmental and Health Impacts of Edible Insect Protein Products

Kenny Coogan: Can you, Anne, just talk a little bit [00:12:00] more about, compared to chicken and beef, what health and environmental benefits does sourcing protein from insects compared to those other protein sources do for the environment?

Anne Carlson: That’s, that’s a huge question. I think if we, if we could break it up into nutrition and then sustainability cuz um, they’re both just super meaty topics.

From a nutrition perspective, uh, the insect protein, complete protein, all of the essential amino acids that a dog needs, uh, similar to what a human needs. The dogs actually have have more essential amino acids. Essential are the ones that you have to eat because your body can’t make those amino acids. So it has everything that the dog needs from that perspective. Also has omegas, vitamin B2, B12, iron, fiber. The fiber is why it’s prebiotic. The fiber feeds the good bacteria in the dog’s gut. None of the [00:13:00] other protein sources have that.

And the reason that the insect protein has it is you’re using the, the whole animal. So you’re getting the exoskeleton and the chitin, which is the fiber that’s feeding that, um, that good bacteria in the dog’s gut.

And then last thing I’ll just mention, cuz I could go on and on and, and Bill might have a perspective on this as well. That it has lauric acid. And lauric acid is really an exciting ingredient because it is fantastic for brain health. In fact, uh, studies have shown that it improves the, the mental acuity in dogs.

So Bill, I’ll give you a second on nutrition if you wanna weigh in on this, cuz you’ve looked at it from a human perspective, right?

Dr. Bill Kern: Not particularly, but we used to always have meal worms in the house because when we were doing, um, uh, rehab for orphan bats, that’s what we fed them. We fed them meal worms. And it was a complete [00:14:00] diet. That’s all they ate were meal worms. And you know, some of them we had to convince cuz they’re used to eating a variety of insects. But in captivity they learned to eat meal worms. And actually we had them to the point where some of ’em would actually learn to come down and eat the meal worms right out of a dish. So we’ve always had meal worms. Meal worms are one of those easy to produce, uh, insects. You know, you can get a lot of meal worm protein from a small amount of, uh, processed grain, ground grain. It’s just highly environmentally friendly way to go.

The other thing too is, and since we were getting into some of the potty jokes, crickets and meal worms don’t pass gas. So they’re not contributing methane to global warming. And they also produce a lot less carbon [00:15:00] dioxide than warm blooded animals do.

Is that gonna make a big difference in global warming? No, but it’s a, it’s another reduction in, uh, carbon footprint.

Anne Carlson: I think the way you have to look at it though is if you are using the insect protein to replace a traditional animal protein, so say a cow, chicken, pig, you’re averting greenhouse gases. Because all of those animals are producing them. And so we’re using something that is not producing those greenhouse gases. So when I think about it from a sustainability perspective, which was part of your question, Kenny. Less land, less water, and almost no greenhouse gases.

The land is really interesting as well, because like here, just take an example. If you’ve got an acre of land and you put chickens on that land. Chickens are a pretty small animal. At the end of a year, you’re gonna have 265 pounds of protein. If you [00:16:00] put crickets on that same land, you’re gonna have 65,000 pounds of protein. And if you put black soldier fly larva, which are like the meal worms, um, that Bill was talking about, you’ll have over a million pounds of protein.

And the reason it takes so much less space is, well, they’re small animals. You’re raising lots of generations during that time because they have, uh, short lifespans. When they reproduce, they’re not producing just a single egg at a time. It’s like 500 eggs. And uh, you’re doing this indoor so you can actually go vertical. They’re naturally swarming, so it’s humane as well.

[00:16:41] Will People Start Eating More Insects?

Kenny Coogan: Bill, do you see the trend of people eating insects go from like comical and funny to we have to? I, I know the government isn’t gonna make us all eat insects, but like, uh, Anne was saying, like the Millennials are buying it for their pets. Do you [00:17:00] think people in North America are gonna change their tune because of climate change? Or do you think they, like does the taste of insects compare to the taste of the traditional meat?

Dr. Bill Kern: No, the taste is different. For meal worms and crickets, those are the things that I’m most familiar with. They tend to have, they’re sort of like the chicken of the insect world in that you can make them taste like whatever you want.

So with meal worms we’d, we’d pan fry them with a little bit of peanut oil, and then you can use any kind of seasoning that you want and make them taste like that. So you can make them taste like potato chips. You can make them salty. You can make them spicy. You can make them barbecue flavor. And so, and there’s, there’s a, a novelty factor for people.

You know, in other parts of the world, you have to remember that this is a common food, not necessarily meal worms or crickets. [00:18:00] But for example, in Asia, the pupae and larvae of silkworms. Silkworms are mass produced in, in factories. Matter of fact, the, the silkworm moth can’t survive in nature anymore. It has to be hand, almost hand fed by people.

And then you have, in order to make the silk, you have to boil the cocoons to make them come apart so you can collect the silk. And so now you have tons of cooked silkworm pupae. It has become an, uh, an important human food in Korea, China, Japan. And then also they’ve been using it quite a bit in animal feed. It’s an industrial byproduct that is lots of protein. Fair amount of fat because they, they are a, a moth caterpillar, but it’s a, a byproduct. [00:19:00] And every year I get calls and my, my colleagues get calls about how to produce termites for human consumption. And our answer is, well, based on how much it costs for, for us to keep our termite colonies alive, termite, dried or cooked termite, um, workers are gonna be somewhere on the order of the cost of gold. In terms of, what is it now, $2,000 an ounce because it’s so labor intensive. But in nature, and in Africa they’re doing it right now. Whenever they know that the, the big mound termites are gonna start producing alates, they just put a big net over the mound. They will collect easily 20 to 30 pounds of alates, which are the, the winged reproductives. They’re the ones that are, are so fat and juicy [00:20:00] because they have to use that energy in their body to start a new colony. You know, it’s so, sort of ranching them makes more sense than trying to farm them.

And that’s true for a lot of things. You know, in, in other parts of the world, um, insects that are a byproduct of some other activity, like honey production, it’s an economical way to get protein in addition or sort of as a byproduct of some of these other activities.

Anne Carlson: There are insects though, that are being farmed in the U.S. That’s what we’re using. Actually in the U.S. and in Canada. The, uh, crickets of course, meal worms, and also black soldier fly larva. Those are the the three main types of insects that we’re starting to see industrial farms on.

Back to the question that you asked about how people are going to start adopting insect protein or why they might, I actually have a hypothesis that it might not have anything to do with [00:21:00] taste.

Uh, one of the things that we’re seeing is one of the early adopters on insect protein has, has been, uh, bodybuilders. And the reason is because of the great nutrient profile and the, you know, the high protein, cuz they’re, they’re very careful about what they’re putting in their body. I think it’s the benefits that we’re proving out with the dogs that are likely gonna be the reasons why people start eating them.

Uh, couple of the, the key ones, uh, one is around immunity. The insects have these incredible immune systems, and it’s antimicrobial peptides. They’re rich in, in antimicrobial peptides. And when the dog eats them, they are getting those antimicrobial peptides and their immune system is enhanced. There’s also been studies that have shown that it’s helping with allergies, helping with arthritis, so a number of different health benefits, and I think those might be some of the compelling reasons why consumers, people, [00:22:00] will start to eat the insects as well.

Dr. Bill Kern: So do you see that insect consumption tends to reduce inflammation?

Anne Carlson: Yes. That’s what we’re seeing in the dogs. And, and I’m seeing there’s, there is one, uh, brand of protein powder that doesn’t actually, they’re, they’re marketing it a lot right now, but they’re not saying that it’s insect protein, but they’re talking about that it has less inflammation. The reason is, is because they’re using the insect protein.

Dr. Bill Kern: Just a outta curiosity on the labeling for these, for your products, what are the requirements? Do you just have to say insect protein or do they, you have to be more specific in that, in your ingredient statement?

Anne Carlson: Oh, in the ingredient statement, you absolutely have to call out what’s being put in it.

So we’ve got, we’re working with crickets and black soldier fly larva at this stage. And so if you look at the ingredient panel, that’s what it will say. Um, mealworm is probably the next insect that’s going to get approved for dogs. Just gonna say mealworm. [00:23:00] However, on front of pack, we don’t always, like on the black soldier fly larva, it just doesn’t really roll off the tongue. So our product is called Good Grub.

Dr. Bill Kern: Ah, okay. And, and black soldier flies, it may take me a while to get used to them because we always see them in poultry houses. They, they live in the litter, but I have, I have seen black soldier flies and they’ll eat just about anything.

Anne Carlson: They’re really incredible. They’re incredible eating machines. And one of the things that’s super exciting about them as a protein source for us is that they’re even more sustainable, uh, from the perspective that for crickets, you, you have to feed them, uh, a feed formulation that looks sort of like a chicken feed. For the, the black soldier fly larva, you’re able to feed them pre-consumer waste streams. Or byproducts. So, for instance, one of the, uh, the groups that we work with is based out of Kentucky, and they’re pulling this stillage and the [00:24:00] spent grains out of a bourbon manufacturer, and they’re pulling, um, cookie dough and pizza dough from another company. And they’re feeding, they actually combine those things together with the right vitamins and minerals and feed that to the, the, uh, the larva, and they thrive on it.

So talk about, you know, you’re taking something that might have ended up in, uh, a landfill and it’s now become a food source for this great new protein. It’s pretty exciting.

Dr. Bill Kern: Yeah.

Kenny Coogan: Can these grubs then be fed to humans, or do they need to be advertised for pet and fish?

Anne Carlson: It, it depends on, um, how they’re raised. So like if you are going to eat insects, I would say, eat something that was raised for humans. Our crickets are actually, are raised for human consumption. The grubs that we’re using are raised for animal consumption. But again, lots of safeguards in place. They’re FDA approved, all of those [00:25:00] things. So it’s, it’s actually, um, it’s quite safe, but it is it, they are being grown for animal consumption.

[00:25:08] Edible Insects Nutrition

Kenny Coogan: And can you talk about how much protein one cup of cricket has or one cup of meal worm or grub compared to another protein source?

Anne Carlson: Yeah. Well, so it, it’s, it’s a little hard to compare them. A lot of times you’ll see there’s a hundred gram comparison, which, which is done. And with that, you know, no, I’ll, I’ll read it to you. The cricket protein, you’re getting 31, um, grams of protein. With the grubs, you get 35. If you were to compare it to a similar serving of chicken or beef, it’s 22 or 18. But again, there’s a little bit of a question mark about whether, you know, did it, did they measure it when it had, um, moisture in it or not?

I think the way [00:26:00] to think about it is it is a, um, a great substitute for the chicken or the beef. And you’re basically, when you’re, when you’re formulating products with it, you just have to really understand, uh, the makeup of what you’re working with. And then combining it with the right other ingredients to make a complete and balanced food for whatever animal you’re working with.

Kenny Coogan: All right, we’re gonna take a quick break in our conversation to hear a word from our sponsor, and when we return, we will learn some safe insects to eat when we’re on our gastronomic journey.

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Learn more about all our fairs by going to www.MotherEarthNewsFair.com. Use the code FAIRGUEST for $5 off a checkout. Whichever fair you choose to join us at, we’re looking forward to seeing you there. Come visit your Mother at the 2023 Mother Earth News Fairs.

And now back to our episode about edible insects.

Kenny Coogan: We are back with entomologist, Dr. Bill Kern and Anne Carson, founder and CEO of Jiminy’s Pet Food.

[00:27:38] Traditional Dishes with Edible Insects

Kenny Coogan: So Bill, you mentioned a couple of the insects. Can you list or maybe name what some of these other countries are doing with their edible insect cuisine? We mentioned like scorpions on a skewer, and then you talked about barbecue, but traditionally, what are these other countries making and serving?

Dr. Bill Kern: So in most cases [00:28:00] it is where you have a, a byproduct, as I I mentioned earlier. Silkworm pupae, which are a byproduct of silk, uh, farming, silk production. It’s a, it’s a large chunk of protein. They, they don’t want it to go to waste, and they’ve been using it in pet food, in livestock feed, and for human consumption, probably for over a hundred years. And you can actually buy them online in cans. And most of the time they, they eat them like a snack or else they’ll use them as a component in other things like stews and things.

Bee grubs or bee larvae have been used in Laos and Cambodia and in, in Africa. They actually take the brood comb. That’s the, the comb that has, you know, some honey on it, but the whole, in the middle of the, the comb is packed with brood, which is insect larvae and pupae. [00:29:00] And they will take that and mash it up and make an alcoholic beverage out of it. They’ll, they’ll let it ferment. And it is a very popular, uh, alcoholic beverage in South Africa or Southern Africa, not just the country of South Africa.

In Japanese cultures, we have, there’s some traditional fall foods that are cultural foods that have become part of the culture, like wasp larvae. So after the first freeze in the wintertime, people go and they’ll collect the wasp nest and they’ll shake the larvae out because the, the stinging adults are all gone. And they can collect those and then they, they pan fry them and eat them.

They also do something similar with, also in the fall, when they’re harvesting the rice. There is a rice grasshopper that they will collect in large numbers during the harvesting process. They will collect those grasshoppers and [00:30:00] fry them and eat them.

For people who like tequila, the or, or mezcal, tequila worm is actually a, a boring insect that feeds on the agave, so it’s a, it’s a byproduct of agave. They call ’em “maguey worms.” There’s actually two different ones. There’s a white one, which is actually the larvae; a skipper butterfly, the giant skipper; and then there is a red one, which is the larva of a moth, a boring moth. And whenever you see somebody eating the worm, when they get to the bottom of mezcal, that’s a, uh, an insect that is from the tequila. That’s supposedly, that’s how you prove that it’s real, true, hundred percent tequila because, you know, if they were, if they were mixing it with cane sugar, you might not have that worm. So the, the worm actually is sort of a, [00:31:00] a way of proving what you’re, you’re having.

In other parts of the world, we have a variety of different insects that people harvest incidentally. When they’re harvesting heart of palm for salads, a lot of times they will find the palm weevil larvae in that bud and they will save those, cuz you know, I’ve, I’ve seen some of them that are as big as my, my thumb. And so that’s a, that’s a decent bit of protein. And, you know, they’re, they’re eating just nice clean plant material so they have a mild flavor and do well as a stir fry.

Areas that are inundated by migratory grasshoppers or locust. It is, you know, possible to go out and collect literally tons of them when they are in migration mode. Those, again are roasted and, [00:32:00] uh, a fried, A lot of times they, they will roast them in the oven and then they can grind them up into a flour. So there’s lots of things out there.

Now that doesn’t mean that you can go out and just pick up any insect you find in your yard and eat it. Especially for those of, for those of you in North America. Because of the overuse of pesticides, you never can be quite sure that the insects you eat haven’t been exposed to pesticides. I’m pretty sure about my yard because I almost never use, uh, any pesticides in my yard. But still, unless you know what the insect is, what it’s been eating, then you might wanna wait and eat some insect that is commercially farmed in a safe, healthy environment so you don’t get any nasty surprises.

Anne Carlson: Can I comment? There are some chefs in the U.S. [00:33:00] that are focused on introducing insect protein into, uh, the, the meals that they make. Last year, I went to insects to feed the world, and they, I’ll do a shout out. Uh, they had Chef Joseph Yoon there. Every single meal, uh, had different insects incorporated in. Of course, there were options if you were, were, uh, a little bit more timid about eating the bugs. But it was amazing. He was using ants and wasps and, uh, meal worms and it, the list went on and on. And if you wanna learn more, he’s on Instagram @Brooklyn Bugs. He does a lot of education on this.

[00:33:39] Crickets in Dog Food

Kenny Coogan: Very good. Anne, can you talk about the species of crickets that you use? I know you, you kinda use like the common names, but I’m just curious, are these the same crickets that if I go to a pet store to feed a lizard, are these like, the same type of crickets you’re feeding the dogs?

Anne Carlson: I believe they are. I don’t [00:34:00] source from the same place that, um, where, where you would find, you know, the, the insects that you’re gonna feed to a gecko or a, you know, a snake or something like that. However, I do believe that they are, they are raising similar ones to what we use. We use the banded and the house crickets. Um, Acheta and Gryllodes. Those are the two, the two key types that are getting farmed in North America. I think, you know, there, there are so many different types of crickets, but those two, we’ve established equivalence between the two of them because their makeup looks very similar as far as the amount of protein, the amount of minerals, so on and so forth.

[00:34:41] Obtaining and Farming Insects

Kenny Coogan: For Backyard Poultry magazine, a couple years ago, I wrote an article about how to raise meal worms and super worms and how to breed them and then feed them to your chickens. Do either of you know, are insects available for people to start farming in their backyards or in their kitchens for their own [00:35:00] consumption?

Anne Carlson: Yeah, there’s lots of things that you can find If you search online that people are even, they’re selling, uh, the, you know, the, the container that you would use to raise them. You can source the babies, uh, so the eggs, to get yourself started. And then there’s lots of instruction as how to do it.

Kenny Coogan: That’s promising. And then I’m sure when I, I’ve done this before, when you Google like “edible insects within the states,” if you want a North American grown insect, um, there’s lots of different powders and proteins and they’re not just served in the whole body, I suppose, right?

Anne Carlson: A lot of times it’s already ground into a protein powder. That’s, it’s really the easiest way to work with them if you’re gonna incorporate it into, like, if you’re making a bread or a cookie or something like that.

Kenny Coogan: Bill, have you ever seen them available at like a farmers market or like similar situation or, or do people have to source them online?

Dr. Bill Kern: Usually [00:36:00] you, you would source them online. The one thing you have to be aware of is when you raise your own meal worms, you have to be very careful that once they start to pupate, you don’t eat those meal worms anymore. They have, as they become adults, they have a toxin in their waste that can contaminate the larvae that are also feeding it. And it tends to make them taste bitter, and it’s also a toxic protein.

In traditional meal worm farming, they put in the young meal worms and they keep a age cohort together before you get any pupa production. Then they will just harvest the entire pan. That’s how you make sure that you get a safe meal worm that hasn’t been contaminated with any of the adult droppings.

Crickets. That is not much of a concern.

Anne Carlson: Well, crickets. The, I would say the big difference. Crickets, when they’re [00:37:00] born, they look like a cricket. Other insects, you know, they’re a larva before they turn into whatever they’re gonna turn into. The crickets are actually adorable when they’re, uh, they’re babies. They’re called “nymphs.”

Dr. Bill Kern: They’re usually propagated in pans of sand because that’s where they lay their eggs. And then once the young ones come out, then you can put them into, I guess you would call ’em growth trays with their food supply to keep them happy and healthy and growing fast.

Anne Carlson: Yeah. In the big facilities, they, they do the same thing where they keep an age cohort together and when, when they get to the point where they’re finding a mate and laying eggs, that’s when they start chirping. Cuz the chirping helps them find each other. And they put in these, kind of, like you said, a, a tray, that is where they would lay the eggs. They’re then able to take those trays out and keep them ready for the next batch. It, it has all of the, they’re thinking through [00:38:00] animal husbandry as part of it as well.

Kenny Coogan: I think this sounds like a fun activity for the listeners. If they have kids, they could be practicing, you know, like this is a good 4H activity, FFA activity. Breeding, raising little edible insects.

Anne Carlson: Absolutely.

Dr. Bill Kern: Yeah.

[00:38:18] How Insect Protein Shrinks the Ecological Pawprint

Kenny Coogan: Okay, last question, Anne. On your website, you have a eco calculator that you alluded to. You enter your dog’s breed and their food intake. And then can you tell us how that works and what the takeaway is?

Anne Carlson: Yeah, yeah. Basically, you know, you’re, you’re entering in all the information that we would need to understand in order to show what the savings would be if you switch from whatever you’re feeding them, whether it’s cow or chicken or pig or fish or whatever, to insect protein.

So we ask how big is the dog, what its breed is, which protein they’re feeding it, and then how much food it eats. Like for instance, there’s a huge range in dogs. My Great Dane [00:39:00] eats six cups of food a day, whereas my lab mix eats two cups. And then it, it basically with those inputs, calculates and tells you how much land, water, greenhouse gases you’re saving. And then it puts it, it’s kind of fun because it puts it into context. How many trees could you plant on that land? How many toilet flushes does that water represent? You know, so on and so forth.

Kenny Coogan: Do you know if most dog food that has chicken and beef and pork in it, are they usually combining those protein sources, or are people purposefully buying chicken only, beef only?

Anne Carlson: Most of the time it’s a single protein source. But you will see, sometimes you’ll see mixes. And sometimes the manufacturer will do that so that they can, you know, if chicken is a little bit more expensive than turkey at certain times of year, if they do a chicken turkey, they can like change the amount that they put in the recipe to control their costs. You’ll see that sometimes.

Kenny Coogan: And then your dog treats and dog food, [00:40:00] the only protein source is cricket. Or insects. As of now?

Anne Carlson: We’re insect and plant based, so depending on which one you’re buying, you’re either getting cricket or the grubs.

Kenny Coogan: All right. Very good. Thank you so much, Bill and Anne for speaking with us. Our conversation on edible insects has been very insightful, and potentially mouthwatering for some of our audience members.

We thank you, the listener for joining our podcast and encourage you to share it with your friends, colleagues, and family. To listen to more podcasts and to learn more, visit our website, www.MotherEarthNews.com/Podcast. You can also follow our social media platforms from that link.

And remember, no matter how brown your thumb is, you can always cultivate kindness.

[00:40:52] Podcast Credits:

John Moore: You’ve just listened to our episode about edible insects. You can reach us at [00:41:00] Letters@MotherEarthNews.com with any comments or suggestions.

Our podcast production team includes Jessica Mitchell, John Moore, and Kenny Coogan.

Music for this episode is “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw.

This Mother Earth News and Friends podcast is a production of Ogden Publications. Learn more about us at www.MotherEarthNews.com.

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Meet Dr. Bill Kern

Dr. Bill Kern’s areas of expertise include Urban Entomology, Africanized Honey Bee Management, Nuisance Wildlife Management, and Medical and Veterinary Entomology.

Meet Anne Carlson

Anne Carlson has spent her entire career working with consumer brands across many categories. Seeing a niche for a sustainable pet food, she started Jiminiy’s.

Additional Resources

Learn more about Jiminy’s.

 Our Podcast Team

Jessica Mitchell, John Moore, and Kenny Coogan
Music: “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw

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