Intro to 4-H Chicken Showmanship and Poultry Projects

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[00:01:17] What is 4-H?

Kenny Coogan: Good day, everyone. And we appreciate you for joining us on another exciting Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. I am Kenny Coogan, and joining me today is Dr. Jacquie Jacob, Poultry Extension Associate and Pam Watson, a 4-H Youth Development Agent. Today, we are going to discuss 4-H poultry programs.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob has been working with 4-H poultry programs since she started at the University of Florida in 1995. She’s also worked with 4-H poultry programs at the University of [00:02:00] Minnesota for seven years and has been working with youth poultry programs in Kentucky since 2008.

Pam Watson is in small farms and has experience with beef, dairy, poultry, goats, and sheep. She grew up in 4-H and FFA in Washington State and works for Washington State University as a 4-H youth educator in Lewis County. Pam is a certified fitting and showing and type judge for non APA/ ABA youth poultry shows and is working toward her APA judge’s license.

Welcome to the podcast, Jacquie and Pam. We’re excited to have both of you here and we’re talking about 4-H poultry programs but before we talk about that. Can you give us an overview of what the 4-H is?

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: Well, 4-H is America’s largest youth development organization. It’s not just in the [00:03:00] United States, though it is actually worldwide.

When I was in Jamaica, I was quite interested to see that Jamaica has a 4-H program. It empowers in the states nearly six million young people with the skills, as a mother or a farmer or a rocket scientist. It has a lot of different aspects, provides education and life skill development for youth to help them grow into confident and capable leaders.

Kenny Coogan: And how would a family locate a 4-H chapter, or how could they get involved?

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: In the United States, all of the 4-H programs are run through the Cooperative Extension Service. It varies from state to state, but most states have county extension offices in every county, and most of them have a 4-H agent. And so they [00:04:00] just need to go into their county extension office.

Pam Watson: If they have trouble finding their county extension office, they can go to 4-h.org and they can put in their location, and that’s our national website and it’ll help them find their local extension office.

Kenny Coogan: And how would they determine if they can legally raise poultry?

Pam Watson: That depends a little bit more on where they’re located, and if they’re in the city limits or outside the city limits. They’ll probably have to check their local ordinances. And sometimes they’re allowed to have three hens, probably no males just because they crow and make a little bit more noise.

Sometimes they’re allowed to have ducks. Probably not guinea fowl or anything that’s really loud and noisy. So check their local, their local ordinances.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: Yeah, there are national, state, [00:05:00] county, and homeowners association regulations. And so you have to really get specific as to what you can and cannot do. And as I say, it depends whether they are rural or urban.

Kenny Coogan: And if families can’t have poultry, can they and should they still participate in 4-H programs?

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: Oh, definitely. We have the National 4-H Poultry and Egg Conference that we hold every year. I’m the Secretary for the Specialist Committee.

It’s held here in Kentucky in Louisville and in November, the week before Thanksgiving. And 4-H’ers, senior 4-H’ers, which is 14 as of January 1st of the competition year, can come. We have five competitive events, none of which require that you have birds. Some of them, you don’t even have to have interest in birds. You just have to have for some culinary, we have three [00:06:00] culinary events. We have the chicken barbecue contest in which they grill four chicken thighs, hand in two or three for taste evaluation, and they give a presentation on the chicken industry. So they get cooking skill judge, sensory judge, and presentation judge.

And then similarly, we have a turkey barbecue contest, which they make ground turkey burgers. And so the kids love that. I do a 4-H , day camp every year in different counties in the state, and the kids get to learn how to do both. And they love the turkey burgers. It allows for more creativity in the culinary aspect of it.

And then the last culinary one we have is the egg chef challenge. So they have to produce an egg- based dish, can be an appetizer, a [00:07:00] salad, a meal, a soup, whatever. As long as it’s egg based and has a certain number of eggs per serving. It’s like a cooking show where they have 12 minutes to prepare and talk about making their recipe and the nutritional value of eggs and including eggs in a healthy diet and that sort of thing. So in no way do they have to have an interest in poultry, they just have to be culinary.

Then we have the avian bowl contest, which is a knowledge-bowl contest, which is a double elimination buzz in with the answer type of question. All the questions are drawn from the national avian bowl contest, which is currently under revision. So for the 2024 contest, it will have the new one. We don’t do the whole book; we do portions of the book, so by four years they’ve covered all the material. [00:08:00] It’s all avian science related. They even I think have raising squab or pet birds and non-food uses for poultry products as well.

And the last one we have is the poultry judging contest. And that’s not what Pam does with, the judging of the birds in a poultry show, which she can talk about. But in the poultry judging contest, they grade eggs for interior and exterior quality. They grade carcasses and parts for quality so they know what a grade A chicken carcass looks like when they see that on their chicken they buy, and identify chicken parts. You’d be surprised how many people don’t know that parts, you know, if you buy a whole chicken and cut it up, what do you call the parts, the drumstick, the leg, the breast and all that kind of stuff.

The only live birds are past production [00:09:00] hens. So, trying to figure out which hens have laid the most eggs in the past, can be used for culling flocks or, or things like that.

There are things where you do not have to have any birds whatsoever. So they can be done by anybody, city where they don’t allow you, to rural areas where you have big farms.

But then there are poultry projects, and they will vary from state to state. So they could be purebred ones that would be in a poultry show where they get judged for the meeting the Standard of Perfection for the particular breed that they’re showing. It could be production birds, so whether that be meat birds like chickens or turkeys.

I don’t know if anyone does ducks because they’re a hell to try and….

Pam Watson: Ducks and geese. Yep.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: They’re hell to try and process. And eggs. So the meat and the eggs, [00:10:00] depending on what kind of bird. If you go to a poultry show, which Pam can talk about , you get the chickens, the ducks, the turkeys, the geese, the guinea fowl, the pigeons, you know, all the different projects that the kids can have, they can bring into the fair. Whether it’s at a county level or a district level or a state level to get their projects judged and get ribbons and premiums and that kinds of things.

[00:10:31] 4-H Poultry Projects and Chicken Showmanship Nationwide

Kenny Coogan: All right, thank you, Jacquie. Pam, can you talk a little bit about the 4-H projects vary by state, but when Jacquie’s saying project, what does that entail?

Pam Watson: The projects are different by state. I judge primarily in Washington and Oregon, but occasionally other states as well. You’d be surprised, I think, at the variability across the nation. Jacquie and I were talking about that a couple weeks ago, just talking about market [00:11:00] projects.

The projects themselves might be called something different. It might be as general as “poultry”. And, then the families will have to ask a little bit more like, well, is that just chickens? Is that a large fowl chicken? Is that a Bantam chicken? And those are sizes. So the Bantams are the smaller birds.

Can they show waterfowl? We’ve been dealing with avian influenza around the nation over about the last 2 years. Some areas are still not allowing the showing of waterfowl. That would be geese and ducks. A lot of areas have turkeys. Could be breeding, could be exhibition or showing. Could be market, as Jacquie mentioned. And then one of my favorites, guinea fowl. I have some of those. I love them. They’re great. . I know Jacquie’s shaking her head, but I, I love ’em.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: Too noisy .

Pam Watson: And then some states have a pigeon or pigeon and dove project, so [00:12:00] if kids can’t have chickens or something else, perhaps they can have pigeons or doves at their location. That’s another project that might be available.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: A project simply means they raise that animal over the course of a year. They keep detailed records on the care of the birds. They submit the record book for evaluation. They learn the importance of daily care. They learn the importance of treating life properly, ethically, humanely, safely.

They learn food safety. They learn biology. They learn to deal with loss if their birds die. So it’s taking a particular bird or trio of birds or flock depending on the type of project and monitoring it all year long . And then typically they then bring it into the county fair to get judged [00:13:00] as the end of the project. They can still keep the birds, but the project.

For example, a production meat project, they often as a club all get the same chicks from the same location at the same time. Sometimes the same feed, that will vary from state to state. The kids then raise them up to a specific age. And then at that age, they select two or three birds, depending on the state or county that they bring in to get judged for various categories. You know, if it’s a meat type bird, then they’re judged for meat potential and all that kind of stuff. Same with a production bird, they can all get pullet chicks at the same time. They don’t have to be the same breed necessarily. Usually they give them a selection of breeds to choose from.

This is especially [00:14:00] important for families with more than one kid. Because each kid can choose a different breed. And so they can house them in one facility and still know which chicks are which kids’. If they’re in different colors. And then they raise them up to , just before lay usually, then they bring them into the fair, usually a trio. And they get judged on the quality of the birds. Sometimes they’ll continue through as an egg production, and they’ll bring them back after a year to see how they’ve been doing for egg production.

There are waterfowl projects, whether it’s meat or eggs, there are guinea fowl projects. There are pigeon projects, which can be meat or racing pigeons or flying pigeons. This will vary depending on the expertise in the location.

And then one of the other contests that they usually have, whether [00:15:00] it’s at the county or state level, is showmanship. So it’s not necessarily the bird that’s being judged, it, the bird comes into with how it’s fitted for show, how it’s presented, how it’s handled, how it’s cared for. But it’s the kid that’s being judged.

So they’re being judged at, as their potential to show their bird. How much do they know about their bird? How much do they know how to take care of it? Do they know all the parts? If it’s a purebred bird, do they know about the history of their breed? That sort of thing.

A poultry show, it’s the birds being judged. But in poultry showmanship, it is the 4-H’er that’s being judged on how they present their bird. So those are interesting types of projects and things that kids can do that are poultry related.

Kenny Coogan: All right, so when I go to [00:16:00] the local fair, the state fair, what you guys are describing, I feel like there’s a lot of, like, verbal, of the kids answering questions to the judge. But I see a lot of posters and materials that they’ve made. Where does that fall in their project? Is that a requirement? Does it vary by state? Do they just like glitter?

Pam Watson: I would say that varies by county. Some counties have it as a requirement. Some do not. For my county, if you have a market sale project, meaning whatever your project is, poultry or beef or swine, if that project is going to auction during our fair, then they have to have a poster up for the public to see so that when that animal goes away at the end of the week, there’s still something there on exhibit.

It’s a great part of the project. It’s not for us. It’s not a separate project. Because it shows the public a [00:17:00] snapshot of what the child has learned during the year. I’m not sure in Jacquie’s area, but we also have an opportunity for the kids to do public presentations. The kids can take either that same information or different information that they’ve learned, and they can give a presentation. Based on the age of the child gives us the length that their presentation has to be, like a minimum and maximum time.

Our kids have to do that in their club setting first to qualify to come to the fair. And then they give that at the fair in front of a second judge, and they can go on to the state fair with that also. It gives a little highlight, little spotlight for the public, if they choose to sit down and partake of what the child is presenting. And we have that for all project areas, not just poultry. And we usually have those going on pretty much throughout the time of our fair.[00:18:00]

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: Here in Kentucky, we have communication day. All projects, they can participate in the public speaking where they give a presentation on whatever. Usually their project, but it can be anything.

And again, different ages have different requirements, and they do it at the club level and then they have to qualify at the district level, and then they can come to the state communication day which is a whole day of listening to kids talk.

Minnesota had an interesting project when I was there. At their state fair, the kids produce posters, and that is supposed to highlight 4-H poultry. It can be on , you know, anything, but it’s supposed to be a poster on 4-H poultry. A very simple thing. And the winning poster becomes the t-shirt that they sell the next year.[00:19:00] They make money by taking the posters. and making t-shirts that people can buy that that are 4-H poultry.

They had one where, “4-H poultry is out of this world.” And there’s a chicken doing the Vulcan salute and you know, “4-H poultry is dynamite.” There was a variety of different things that you see. And then second place, a poster became the cover for the program in the next year’s poultry show. They give out a program every year for the audience to know what’s going on. And so the cover would be the second place poster. The kids love to put in the posters. It’s totally separate than their animal, but they put in the poster. That was Minnesota specific.

Florida, their state fair did a combined 4-H FFA poultry judging contest. They’re very similar.[00:20:00] More so now than they used to be because you know FFA, Future Farmers of America, also has a poultry program for older kids, Most of the time, the 4-H programs and FFA are, are totally separate, but in Florida, they ran their state contest concurrently.

Everything is different state by state. And then now the problem is becoming, there are less and less state specialists that do poultry, including 4-H poultry. We’re seeing that at the national level, where we have a specialist committee that runs the National 4-H Poultry and Egg Conference. They’re getting older and older, and there aren’t a lot of new ones coming out. We’re gonna have to start getting new specialists, new volunteers.

Some of our committee members were actually 4-H’ers. One of them was a 4-H’er with me in Minnesota. [00:21:00] He pretty much competed in every single event. And then as a student of mine, he came with me when I brought kids from Minnesota to the, the national contest. And now he’s a member of the committee as an industry volunteer.

If states don’t have poultry specialists and they are interested in getting involved in poultry programming, I am more than willing to help out in any way I can, especially now with Zoom. We’ve done a lot of things with Zoom. When COVID hit, we got quite used to doing Zoom programming. And I’m more than willing to help instruct volunteers on how to do poultry judging, how to prepare for avian bowl, how to do the turkey or chicken barbecue, how to do the egg prep, how to do a broiler project. Whatever they want to know, all they got to do is email me and I’ll help in any way I can. [00:22:00] We need to get the number of volunteers up.

Kenny Coogan: Excellent. We’re going to take a quick break in our conversation to hear a word from our sponsor. And when we return, we will continue to talk about 4-H’s leadership and showmanship opportunities.

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[00:22:45] Who Participates in 4-H and FFA?

Kenny Coogan: We are back with Dr. Jacquie Jacob, poultry extension associate, and Pam Watson, a 4-H youth development agent.

What is the age requirement, or what’s the age range, for 4-H [00:23:00] compared to FFA?

Pam Watson: I think it varies just a little bit by state, especially what the kids are allowed to do per age group. But in Washington State, If our kids are five years old by October 1st they can sign up for a poultry project.

They can’t do any of the larger animals, like say a beef animal, but they can do small animal projects. They of course can sign up for other things like gardening or photography or things like that. But with the animals, we do limit the younger kids. And then we go all the way up to age 18.

If the kids are under 19, on October 1st, they have one more year. We go 5 to 18 for 4-H.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: And you do it based on October 1st. In Kentucky here, we do it based on January 1st, even though our program year starts in September, 4-H age is based on January 1st. [00:24:00] And nationals is based on January 1st.

For seniors, which would go to nationals, have to be 14 as of January 1st and cannot be 19 as of January 1st. So they, they can compete at the national level as at 19. But as long as they turn 19 after January 1st

And then we have juniors. They start at 9 to 13, and then 14 to 18 is the seniors. We do have clover buds, which are 5 to 8 years old. We do not allow clover buds to participate in competitions per se. Normally in a 4-H competition, they get a ribbon. It’s the Danish system, they call it. So they either get a blue ribbon because they did really good or a red ribbon because they had a little problem or a white ribbon because they , had lots of problems. But we don’t want the younger [00:25:00] generations to be judged. So they get a green ribbon, which is basically a participation ribbon.

They can participate in an event, but they don’t compete, so to say. I’m sure they could have 4-H poultry. I don’t usually allow them in my barbecue camps, although I have had a seven year old come to one of my barbecue camps. They can’t compete in the state contest because they have to be 9.

You know, a lot of people think 4-H is a rural thing, it’s an agriculture thing, and it’s not. 4-H is a youth development program. It can be anything. It can be gardening. It can be insect collection. It can be photography. It can be engine repair.

Pam Watson: Computer science, robotic, yeah.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: STEM programs. They have a lot of STEM programs. And then there are agriculture [00:26:00] related ones. And I think 4-H started out of agriculture, but it is so much bigger than that these days. Shooting sports. It all varies depending on the county that you’re in and which volunteers, because the leaders of the clubs are typically volunteers who’ve gone through background checks and all that sort of stuff.

4-H has quite a system set up for youth protection. You know, when you think about the Boy Scouts and all the scandal that went around with that. 4-H has quite , an extensive background checks and training and whatnot for youth protection.

But if you have a particular specialty you know, that you’re interested in leading a club in. You know, the counties are always looking for volunteers to participate. If a project is not in a county, it’s because they don’t have a volunteer to [00:27:00] lead the club. Because the county agent can’t do all of it.

Pam Watson: Yeah, we’re way too busy for that, and we love our volunteers.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: Yeah.

[00:27:10] Requirements for 4-H Chicken Showmanship and Poultry Competitions

Kenny Coogan: All right. Before we do a podcast, we put it on social media to see if our followers have comments or questions, and we got several for you. The “Ultimate Anna” writes, “my son is 59 years old and he was in the 4-H program. He learned so much about raising his chickens. He took some to sell in the fall. We had chickens for many years and still buy the county eggs. They are the very best. The 4-H is a great program.”

Now, some counties have poultry shows and many states have state poultry shows. What are the requirements for a 4-Her to participate in a show? I know earlier you mentioned one year of raising the birds, but is there any other requirements for participation?

Pam Watson: It really [00:28:00] depends again on the county or the state. As Jacquie said, some areas say you have to have a standard bred bird, which means you would have to get eggs shipped in or meet with a breeder and get birds from a breeder. And those are birds that meet the Standard of Perfection, which is through the American Poultry Association.

They can be more production type, which could be again meat or egg laying that the kids would get from the feed store or have them shipped in from a hatchery. So it really depends what the need of the project is, again, whether it’s an egg producing project or a meat producing project. Or in the case of Bantams, standard bred Bantams, maybe they’re only for exhibition as a primary purpose.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: You can have a county poultry show without having a project group . So especially the purebreds, a lot of kids just like to [00:29:00] raise purebreds. And a lot of times a lot of adults do too. So they may have a county show that’s just open to a kid that has a purebred bird or an adult. An open poultry show is anybody can compete. So it can be an adult or a child. And then you can have an open youth show, which of course you have to be a youth for, and often those are 4-H FFA, but they can also be homeschooled kids, or whatever. They just have to be a youth and they compete. And then you can have a 4-H event, where you have to be a 4-H member who has a chicken, or a duck, or whatever the show allows.

Pam Watson: And then they have… Then they have to participate in fitting and showing.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: So, again, it depends on the county, what type of rules they put in. Typically states require county fairs to have a screening process. So [00:30:00] here in Kentucky, we have the state veterinarian’s office sends out blood testers. They blood test for Pullorum, Salmonella pullorum. Anyone found positive for Salmonella pullorum is not allowed into the poultry building. During the avian influenza outbreak, they were screening for that, but that’s not an on site test as much as it is a lab test. And they check for parasites and disease and all that kind of stuff.

And we are currently letting waterfowl in. Kentucky only ever had one or two cases of avian influenza over the whole two or three years that we’ve been dealing with it. So our poultry shows were never banned or restricted in any way. Oh, no. Well, the first year it was restricted to Kentucky birds only.

Many of our state contests have birds from out of state. So even in the counties, kids can go from one county to another to show their birds.[00:31:00] You don’t have to be in that county to show the birds. You just have to enter your bird under their county regulations or registration system or whatever.

Some states require that you qualify at a county fair before you can go to the state fairs. You have to qualify to go to the state fair. Kentucky does not have a state 4-H program. We have, I mean, in poultry show, we do have an open youth show. So any youth can come and show their birds, have to be purebred.

And they do do chicken standard and Bantam from all the different classes of and breeds in the Standard of Perfection. They do ducks, they do geese, they do turkeys. Unfortunately, they do guinea fowl, and of course, pigeons. So, we have had a few pigeons escape, but they run it concurrently with the open show, where adults and youth can come and show their birds there.[00:32:00]

Sometimes, like in Florida, when I was there, they had a tri-county fair. So three counties got together. They didn’t have enough to do each one their own. So they had a tri-county fair, which was quite large and had lots of birds there.

The county fairs may have production birds, but it has to say that. If it says “open”, it’s anybody. If it says “youth”, you have to be youth. If it’s “open youth,” you don’t have to be in any program. If it’s “4-H youth”, then you have to be 4-H.

[00:32:33] Recommended Poultry Breeds for Market

Kenny Coogan: All right, Pam. We got another one of our social media followers, Autumn Wilburn. She would like to ask a technical question. “We have done market poultry and showmanship for two years now. I’m curious, what breed do you recommend for market, excluding the Cornish Cross? What makes weight in the shortest growing period for roasters? How do you ensure best rates of gain?”

Pam Watson: So [00:33:00] it really comes down to your county regulations.

Again, it’s different from county to county. In my county, we have a market sale committee. They’re the ones that host the sale. And they host that for both our 4-H and FFA kids. If there are separate regulations outside of 4-H, that’s the first thing to look at. Some contests only allow Cornish Cross, which are our commercial meat breed. There are some different, I’m going to call them “strains,” because it’s the same breed, but there’s some different strains that have some different characteristics.

There are some slightly slower growing birds that are different colors. And they have different names, you know, red ranger, rainbow ranger, kind of names like that. And they’re a little bit closer to, I’m going to go out on a limb, call them “heritage breeds.” They’re usually still a cross but they’re a different color and they’re [00:34:00] usually maturing instead of at 6 to 8 weeks, they’re usually maturing somewhere between like 12 and 16 weeks.

So a little slower growing. A little bit slower maturity or weight gain, different color, little bit different meat texture in the final product. But again, if your contest does not allow that, then you have to go back to your organization that’s hosting that, whether it’s a separate market sale committee, your county 4-H council, your fair board whoever’s hosting. If you want something to change, that’s where you got to start.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: For meat birds, whether it’s chicken or turkey, Texas is big into turkey shows, turkey meat projects, you’ll never beat the Cornish Cross for rate of gain and feed efficiency.

And so most shows, that’s what they use, and they’re going to be judged on how much weight they’ve got on and all that kind of stuff. So if [00:35:00] you put in, you know, an eight week old Cornish Cross with a 12 week old Red Ranger, the broiler is going to win every time because it’s got more meat on it than the, the Red Ranger. Especially the breast, which is the most preferred meat on the bird.

So unless the club decides for a project that they’re going to do all the same slow growing type bird to the same age at the same time, then Cornish Cross.

Pam Watson: And I would say your weight gain and things like that, you have to watch your temperatures. So if it’s cooler, you got to keep them warm when they’re younger. If it’s warmer, you got to keep them cooler . So they’re they’re using all the energy to keep warm, they’re not going to gain weight. Keeping the appropriate temperature so that they’re eating. Keep water in front of them all the [00:36:00] time, and keep them as clean as you can And fryers are messy. They’re gross. So you know, if you can keep them as comfortable as possible and keep food and water in front of them and keep them clean, you’re going to gain weight and you’re going to do well. So that’s, that’s my advice for fryers.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: And a complete feed so that they’re getting a nutritionally balanced diet.

Pam Watson: Something with the appropriate protein level. Yes.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: And vitamins and minerals, so no disease problems.

[00:36:32] 4-H and Building Leadership

Kenny Coogan: Our last comment for today is from Lisa Johnson, and she writes that it is fantastic that we are having a podcast on 4-H.

She writes “Growing up an only child in the country, I was a bit shy, but I had been in love with horses for as long as I’d known. Our neighbor was a 4-H leader. Before long, I was in 4-H. I bought my first horse, rescued my first dog, and began showing [00:37:00] bunnies, goats, and chickens. All of it was great experience and learning opportunity for me. I became a leader after I turned 18. Now I have a farm full of rescued animals and use the skills that I learned daily.”

So, the last question I have for both of you is, what leadership opportunities does the 4-H provide? I know the FFA has officers, and I know you talked about projects, but what like specifically is unique about 4-H leadership opportunities?

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: Well, 4-H clubs, each club has its own officers. You have the president of the club, the vice president, secretary, treasurer, parliamentarian. They try to get older members to help teach the younger ones. So you’re getting that mentoring ship type of thing.

And then I think they have in some states district councils that also have all those leaderships. And [00:38:00] then at the state level they have a state council. And so, for example, at our state fair, I was running the showmanship, and culture judging, which are all run at the state fair, and a council member comes and presents awards. You know, we talk about the council and what they do on it and all that kind of stuff. But the whole idea of 4-H is to develop leadership. So we try to incorporate that into all of our programs, whether it’s poultry, or shooting sports, or horses, or pigs, goats, rabbits, whatever. The clubs try to foster leadership, and the volunteers are trained on how to do that as well in their volunteer training.

Pam Watson: And I would say, we start the kids out with their projects, and their first couple of years, whether they’re clover [00:39:00] buds or juniors, and we have what we call “intermediates” in Washington state. They’re the in between group.

When they’re clover buds and they’re juniors, they’re mostly focused on their projects. They’re really learning the basics , what they need to know for just daily care, what they need to know for fitting and showing. By the time they’re intermediates, which would be kind of the preteen, early teen years, those kids are starting to pick up some of those leadership roles, whether it’s a historian in their club or, or parliamentarian. Maybe they’re starting to help with the project meetings. So, if their project is large and they have multiple project areas, maybe they’re helping with the poultry project teaching those younger kids. Maybe they are helping to lead the games and activities during the club.

Some of our counties also have an opportunity for teen [00:40:00] clubs. And we’ve had one off and on. We invite intermediates and senior level students to come and participate in that. They have another set of officers. We also allow our kids to participate in our county leaders council. In fact, we don’t even call it leaders council. We just call it 4-H council. And it’s made up of adults and teen youth members, and they kind of help guide our county program.

As Jacquie mentioned, we also have the opportunity for some state level, we call them “4-H ambassadors” in Washington. And those kids have some different roles at some district levels and state level for other opportunities, like ” know your government.” So we have an opportunity there for the teens to come and learn about government and some different systems. But they’re all different stepping stones so that during their 4-H [00:41:00] career, they are gaining different skills at different levels that are age appropriate to build their lifetime leadership skills.

Dr. Jacquie Jacob: And most club meetings include an activity that tries to foster communication, especially to bring out the shy kids to interact and get to know each other. Especially at the younger level.

Kenny Coogan: Thank you so much Jacquie and Pam for speaking with us. Our conversation on 4-H poultry projects has been very informative.

Pam Watson: Thank you.

Kenny Coogan: And we thank you, the listener, for joining our podcast and encourage you to share it with your friends, colleagues, and family. And remember, no matter how brown your thumb is, you can always cultivate kindness.

[00:41:45] Podcast Credits and Brinsea Ad

Jessica Mitchell: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Mother Earth News and Friends. To listen to more podcasts and get connected on our social media, visit our website, www.MotherEarthNews.com/P odcast. You can also email us [00:42:00] at Podcast@OgdenPubs.com with any questions or suggestions.

Our podcast production team includes Jessica Mitchell, Kenny Coogan, John Moore, Carla Tilghman, and Alyssa Warner.

Music for this episode is “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw. The Mother Earth News and Friends podcast is a production of Ogden Publications.

Thanks again to Brinsea, our sponsor for this Mother Earth News and Friends podcast episode. You too can experience the Brinsea difference and maximize your hatch rates with Brinsea incubators that monitor temperature and humidity and are made of antimicrobial materials.

Brinsea ships worldwide and provides stellar customer support to answer all your questions. Hatch your chicks with Brinsea, the leader in innovative incubation research. Learn more at Brinsea.com. Again, that’s [00:43:00] www.Brinsea.com .

Until next time, don’t forget to love your mother.

Meet Our 4-H Program Experts

Dr. Jacquie Jacob has been working with 4-H poultry programs since she started at the University of Florida in 1995. She also worked with 4-H poultry programs at the University of Minnesota for 7 years and has been working with youth poultry programs in Kentucky since 2008.

Pam Watson is in small farms and has experience with beef, dairy, poultry, goats, and sheep. She grew up in 4-H and FFA in Washington State and works for Washington State University as a 4-H Youth Educator in Lewis County. Pam is a certified Fitting and Showing and type judge for non-APA/ABA youth poultry shows and is working toward her APA judge’s license.

Additional Resources for Chicken Showmanship, Poultry Projects, and More!

Learn more about 4-H and how to get involved.

Our Podcast Team

Jessica Anderson, John Moore, Kenny Coogan, and Alyssa Warner
Music: “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw

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The Mother Earth News and Friends podcasts are a production of Ogden Publications.

Ogden Publications strives to inspire “can-do communities,” which may have different locations, backgrounds, beliefs, and ideals. The viewpoints and lifestyles expressed within Ogden Publications articles are not necessarily shared by the editorial staff or policies but represent the authors’ unique experiences.