Heritage Poultry Update: Threatened Rare Chicken Breeds & More

John Moore: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. One of the many beautiful things about nature is biodiversity. More specifically, the diverse array of poultry breeds. It’s becoming increasingly important to pay attention to the breeds that are struggling and finding ways to prevent losing them altogether.

In this episode, a friend of the podcast, Jeannette Beranger of the Livestock Conservancy, returns to talk about rare and heritage poultry breeds, and which ones are on the Conservancy’s Conservation Priority List. This is Mother Earth News.

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[00:01:33] Introducing Jeannette Beranger

Kenny Coogan: Good day everyone, and we appreciate you for joining us on another exciting Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. I am Kenny Coogan, and joining me today is Jeannette Beranger, a senior program manager for the Livestock Conservancy. At Mother Earth News for 50 years and counting, we have been dedicated to conserving our planet’s natural resources while helping you conserve your financial [00:02:00] resources. Today we are going to learn about endangered and rare heritage breeds of poultry.

Jeannette Beranger has been with the Livestock Conservancy since 2005 and uses her knowledge to plan and implement conservation programs, conduct field research, and advise farmers in their endeavors with rare breeds. She is the co-author of the bestselling book, An Introduction to Heritage Breeds. At home, she maintains a heritage breeds farm with a focus on rare breed chickens. Welcome to the podcast, Jeannette.

Jeannette Beranger: Oh, thanks for having me.

Kenny Coogan: We’re excited to have you. And I think I’ve been interviewing you for Backyard Poultry and Mother Earth News for about 10 years now, but it’s the first video interview.

Jeannette Beranger: Yeah.

[00:02:52] The Livesetock Conservancy Conservation Priority List

Kenny Coogan: So the Livestock Conservancy’s mission is to protect America’s endangered livestock and poultry [00:03:00] breeds from extinction. Endangered categories include critical, threatened, watch, recovering, and study. So Jeannette, can you explain what those labels mean?

Jeannette Beranger: Sure. So these are the, the ways we rate populations. Critical is typically, with the poultry, it, it, it varies between livestock and poultry. For poultry, critical is gonna be fewer than 500 breeding birds in the U.S. with five or fewer primary breeding flocks, which are about 50 birds or more and an estimated global population of less than a thousand. So that’s obviously the, the, you know, the, the highest level of priority for us. And then we move down to threatened, which means fewer than a thousand breeding birds and global population of less than 5,000. Then we have the watch category, which is fewer than 5,000 birds in the [00:04:00] U.S. and less than 10,000 globally. And then once they get past that, limit, we have what’s called recovering, where their numbers are pretty good, but things can slide really easily. And so we like to move the breeds into recovering and make sure that they’re gonna be okay for a few years before we take them off the list completely.

And we do have a study category where we’ll put some breeds in that we want to take a closer look at, cuz we wanna know, are they the actual breed they say they are or are they a modern recreation of something that no longer exists? Because our business is genetic conservation. And so just because an animal looks like a breed from a genetic standpoint, they may not be the same thing.

Now, I’ll give you a good example is the Lamona chicken. The Lamona chicken, you know, was [00:05:00] developed, you know, in, in like I think in the 1940s or 1950s. They all but disappeared. And, and the birds we have today, although they look exactly like Lamonas, I mean, there’s really good Lamonas out there. Genetically, they’re not the original breed, you know, they’re modern recreation that’s done a really good job getting birds to look like that breed. But from a genetic sense, they’re just not the original breed anymore.

So some of the other criteria, you know, we were talking, I’m talking about if it’s a true genetic breed, you know, and the other thing is that they’ve had a long history in the United States and typically we say, you know, prior to 1925, and then there are some exceptions like recently created animals like the Lamona. They were created after 1925, but the animals from which they were created no longer exists. And so that was of [00:06:00] interest to us.

The other thing is if it’s a recent import. There are a lot of funky chickens and other animals coming into the U.S. recently, and although they’re rare, they’re recent import and a lot of times they’re doing just fine in the country of origin. You know, we, we have limited resources, so we have to keep the list to a reasonable number of breeds. That’s why we’ve got kind of this methodology. And so where a recent import might be considered for the Conservation Priority List is like, for instance, Arapawa goats. They’re a recent import. They came in in the nineties, and they’re rare where they come from. And because they’ve been doing so well here in the U.S., 50% of the world’s population, Arapawas, is now in the United States, which means our population is pertinent to the global population.

So that’s the other reason we would include a [00:07:00] breed is if the population here has pertinence to the global population. And in this case it does because the population’s not that secure in New Zealand. And so we have to take some responsibility to make sure they don’t disappear here. Does that make sense?

Kenny Coogan: Yes. How do you find out those numbers? Do you rely on farmers to self-report how many birds or livestock they have?

Jeannette Beranger: Yeah, it depends on the species. For livestock breeds, a lot of time we get registration numbers, and that kind of gives you a sense of how many breeding animals are out there.

We’re also only counting breeding animals. We’re not counting pets, we’re not counting neutered animals. We’re talking about animals that are contributing to the population, cuz there’s no point in counting the others. So for, for livestock, it’s like registration numbers. If there’s no registry, then yeah, you gotta call the farmers and try and get a sense of how many animals are out [00:08:00] there.

For rabbits, we have show numbers. And the numbers of rabbits that are showing up at, at shows gives us an indication on trends with certain rabbits. And so that is a useful calculator. And then with poultry, it gets a little more complicated, cuz there are no registries and, you know, we’re not able to get show numbers, cause a lot of shows still are being conducted on paper, which I think is crazy. But it is what it is.

Kenny Coogan: This podcast is being recorded in 2023.

Jeannette Beranger: Yes. So what we have, what we do is an online form, and we just get it out to as many people as possible. We send a call out to Mother Earth News, to the American Poultry Association, American Bantam Association, the breed clubs. Any place we can think, we try to blast it out there and get as many folks as possible [00:09:00] to participate.

And, and poultry census is really hard. It, it can take over a year to get a, a reasonable census. And then in the end, you know, people are like, what about my birds? I never heard about the census. And I’m like, I know we’re never gonna get exact numbers, but we can get a pretty good idea of what’s out there. And we not only count private individuals, but we also count university populations, hatchery populations. So we’re fortunate that we’ve been building good relationships with hatcheries to the point where they’re willing to share the, the information.

And so it’s all these things combined that help us determine the status of a breed. As I said, poultry is probably the trickiest because you’re never gonna count all of them, but if you can get a good idea of what’s going on out there, then it can help direct you on, on what things, you know, need [00:10:00] help.

I’ll give you a good example with like Malays. We were only able to find 15 private flocks of Malays. Fifteen! And only maybe approximately 134 breeding birds. So that puts up a red flag for us. It’s really concerning. And no hatchery carries Malays. So, you know, these private individuals, it’s all in their hands.

It’s information like that that, that helps guide where we’re gonna put our energies in. There are others that are doing really, really well. We’ve had some that have moved to recovering and even some that have graduated. Like this year, one of the, the breeds that graduated is the Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock, cuz of the backyard chicken movement, and some large breeding flocks that are out there. They’re doing pretty darn good. They finally have been able to come outta recovering and, and they’re gonna graduate this year. So that’s, that’s pretty [00:11:00] exciting.

Kenny Coogan: Later in the podcast we’ll talk more about updates. How often is the Conservation Priority List for poultry updated? And is it, are all of the groups updated or is it breed-by-breed updated?

Jeannette Beranger: We review the, the CPL twice a year. We have our big sit down, let’s go over every single breed, in the wintertime. Usually around January, February. And then the new CPL will come out in July. And then usually we have a mid-year review where, you know, we talk about any kind of progress or anything more that we’ve learned about any of the breeds within the list. And it’s not as quite as intense a meeting as the the winter one, where we have to go through every single breed, which is like about 150, somewhere around there. It, it fluctuates.

But, the really cool thing, and I, I love this about our organization, is we really [00:12:00] seem to have a good grasp of the pulse of what’s happening with each of these breeds. I might not know what’s happening with one breed, but one of my colleagues probably does. And between all of us, when we sit at the table, you know, we’re like, well, okay, what’s going on with Anconas? And you know, I might be able to answer that because I, I talk with Ancona people all the time. And then other folks are maybe talking a lot more with Java people or you know, some of the waterfowl people.

And so, you know, it’s not an exact science cuz like I said earlier, you, you can’t count every single animal. But if you can get an idea of, is this a big population or is it not? That helps guide us. That’s kind of how our work goes.

And beyond the numbers, once animals are on the Conservation Priority List, we have a big job to do. And that’s to try and stabilize the populations and [00:13:00] organize the owners and breeders, and then help them develop markets so that these animals become desirable for others to get involved with.

And the latest project that I’ve been involved with was the Crevecoeur chicken project. They were pretty close to being gone about 10 years ago. You know, we started small, tried to figure out what bloodlines were left out there, gathered them up, and then started cranking out chicks, and then doing really good selection on the animals to get ’em back to breed standard and learn more about ’em. A lot of these poultry breeds have very little written about them. Which stuns me. There’s some that, you know, there are reams of paper on it, like Plymouth Rock or Rhode Island Red. Yeah, you’re gonna find tons of stuff on them. But stuff like the Crevecoeur, the La Flèche, or you know, some of the imported breeds that weren’t developed here. Even in their home country, this not a lot written about them.

When you get involved with the breed, I, [00:14:00] I really encourage people to document what they’re finding. How much does a newly hatched chick weigh? What’s the average weight of eggs? What color are the eggs? What color are the chicks? How fast do they grow? How do they taste, you know, all those things. It’s just not written down for a lot of these breeds. And because we’ve been able to build numbers, get the breed back to breed standard weight, which I don’t think anybody’s seen in decades, and talk about the food qualities and the, the laying and the ins and outs of that breed to get people excited about it.

And also the history a lot of times will grab people. Each of these breeds has a great story. And so if you can document that story, that helps you to build market and build interest, and, and I’m happy to say last year we were able to graduate the Crevecoeur from critical to threatened, cuz we’ve got an a, a growing breeding population and people really excited [00:15:00] about Crevecoeur, which, 10 years ago, nobody was talking about them, except maybe the French. But even in France, they’re super rare. I think we have more here now than there are in France.

[00:15:11] Importance of Tracking Heritage Breeds and Diversity

Kenny Coogan: Why is it important to track endangered, threatened, and non-threatened breeds? So basically, what’s so great about heritage poultry breeds?

Jeannette Beranger: Well, it’s the diversity. I mean, it, it’s not rocket science. I think even a basic course in biology is gonna teach you that diversity is really important for healthy biological systems. And for agriculture, one of the things that’s really not paid attention to as much as it should be is biodiversity within the animals that we raise for our food. A majority of the chicken that you buy are hybrid chickens that are held by, what, three poultry companies. And that’s limited diversity. You can’t reproduce those birds on your own farm, so you’re [00:16:00] completely dependent on somebody providing you chicks, which seems awfully boring for me. I wanna breed my own animals and have a little bit of control over what it is that I’m bringing onto my farm. And when you’re completely dependent on, you know, hatch, and, and there’s nothing wrong with hatchery birds. But if you’re completely dependent on that for your resource, then it is what it is. You don’t have any control. And, and if you wanted to, select for better temperament or better mothering skills or something like that, you’re gonna have to do that on your own.

Preliminary stuff that we’ve started looking into with chickens in particular is looking at the DNA of heritage breeds or non-commercial breeds and compare them to some of the commercial birds. And what we’ll finding, even in the part of the DNA that represents immune function, there are things within these heritage birds that are completely non-existent in commercial birds. So can we identify what [00:17:00] exactly that is? Is it disease resistance? Is it parasite resistance? Is it something else we haven’t imagined?

But what we do know is it’s non-existent in commercial poultry. Until we know what that is, you’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater if you lose these breeds. And, some of these breeds have been around for hundreds and or even longer, you know, many, many years. And it’s gonna take that long to, to recreate that animal. And so, you have to look at every breed as a, an important genetic piece of agriculture as a whole. And so, our job is to try and conserve that bit of diversity. These breeds are rare because yeah, they got outcompeted by commercial birds still doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be around. Some of these breeds never are gonna take off and be the next broiler chicken for the masses, but, maybe they have resistance to a particular disease that’s wiping [00:18:00] out commercial birds. That might be something important to hang, keep around.

[00:18:05] Heritage Breeds VS. Commercial Breeds

Kenny Coogan: Are there other differences between heritage breeds and commercial breeds other than disease resistance and how long it took to develop them?

Jeannette Beranger: Well that’s a good question. We’re actually working towards answering. We’ve just spent the past three years, no actually four or five years now, collecting DNA from a wide array of birds, both in the private sector, the university sector, and commercial sector. We’re starting to take a look at the distances between those breeds and how different they really are. And even some of the breeds we’ve collected multiple bloodlines. For instance, like the birds that we’re finding in Canada have been isolated up there for so long that they’re very different from the same breed that we find here in the U.S. They’re all the same breed. It’s just because of separation [00:19:00] for so long. And we know they weren’t crossbred up there, and the ones we pulled we’re fairly certain they weren’t crossbred, it’s just they’ve diverged.

That’s, you know, an interesting piece of that puzzle. But we’re hoping that we’ll be able to publish something at least on our website and show folks how the different breeds relate to each other. And we’re graphing everything on a 3D graph, which is gonna be really cool to kind of play with on the website.

Kenny Coogan: How do you see heritage breeds helping our future? Is it the sole fact that they provide biodiversity and disease and temperature resistance?

Jeannette Beranger: The thing that’s most important is that there’s still a resource for you to be able to raise your own food. Also equipped, depending on the right breed, for the right place, they’re equipped to face the challenges that, I don’t care what part of the political spectrum you’re on. The fact is climate’s changing for really rough weather or extended heat, extended [00:20:00] drought, or wet conditions. A lot of these breeds are much better able to cope with that than commercial animals. They’re really important to have around.

There’s a really interesting story out of archeology about chickens at the San Diego Presidio, which is the early Spanish settlement there. And they found chicken bones at the Presidio. They’ve studied them quite a bit, and the archeologists all point to the fact that if that colony had not had chickens, it would not have survived, because they were cut off from supplies coming up from Mexico. If it were not for the chickens, the, the settlement would never have survived, which is pretty stunning conclusion. Cuz archeologists are very hesitant to make conclusions. They want real facts. And they had large foul and they had Bantams to hatch the eggs of the large foul, and they were able to hatch their own birds and [00:21:00] have eggs and meat and they survived. Which is pretty cool.

[00:21:04] Do You Want to Raise Heritage Poultry Breeds?

Kenny Coogan: How can listeners find and raise poultry breeds that are on these lists?

Jeannette Beranger: Well, on our website, which is www.LivestockConservancy.org, you can find the Conservation Priority List there to see what breeds are listed. You also have breeders and products directory and a classifieds directory. You can find animals that way. First off, I should say that hatchery birds do have a place and that if you’re just getting started with the breed, that’s not a bad place to start cuz you’re not, you’re not gonna know a hundred percent if the breed’s gonna work for you. Right place, right breed And so, study up on the breed you’re thinking of getting, and don’t make the pick just cuz they’re cool looking. You know, you, you wanna understand, are they meat birds? Are they egg birds? Are they dual purpose? Are they heat resistant? Are they cold resistant? Do they have friendly dispositions? Are they gonna be good mothers, or are they just gonna lay their egg and walk [00:22:00] away? You know, those kind of things you ask yourself, and then you can whittle down to a small handful of breeds that might work for you.

And then the very last question you ask yourself is, do they appeal to you? Because if they don’t, well that’s endgame. You’ll never find a Naked Neck chicken on my farm, I can tell you that. Sorry folks that have Naked Neck.

Kenny Coogan: I was just gonna say, I will not tell my Naked Neck chicken that you’ve said that comment. And, and speaking of which, Jeannette, I live in the city limits. Should people raise rare heritage breeds if they can’t have a rooster on their property and therefore can’t breed the birds?

Jeannette Beranger: Oh, sure. Not every bird’s meant to be a breeder. So you could source animals from the hatchery. Or go to a breeder and say, hey, I’m not planning on breeding. I’d just like some pullets. Because as a breeder, you’re gonna know who you’re gonna keep and who you’re gonna let go pretty early. If you really know your breed, [00:23:00] by about eight weeks to 12 weeks, you’re gonna pretty much know who you’re gonna keep or not, maybe a little bit longer for some slower growing breeds. And that way, you’re providing a market for that breeder to get rid of their culls rather than just culling them and eating them. So that actually helps breeders by providing a market for their culls.

[00:23:21] How to Support The Livestock Conservancy

Kenny Coogan: How can people support the Livestock Conservancy even if they can’t raise the animals?

Jeannette Beranger: Well, we have a lot of members that don’t have animals, and a lot of them are foodies or just people that really support the mission. And so you can join as a member. It’s $45 a year. You will be kept up to date on the cutting edge of livestock and poultry conservation. We stretch our bucks and do quite a bit with the resources we have. It’s a great organization. I still can’t believe I get paid to do what I do cuz I can, you know, I’m a poultry [00:24:00] snob and I just thoroughly enjoy the work, and it’s meaningful work. So supporting this work is meaningful. Even if you don’t think it’s going to affect you personally, it does in the long run. You might not need us today, sometime in the future, you know, because we saved a certain breed or two, it might make the difference.

Kenny Coogan: How can people support heritage breeds outside of raising them themselves?

Jeannette Beranger: Use their products. There’s all kinds of products that are available from certain breeds. Certainly chickens and poultry, they’re good eating. Then that extra money to buy a real heritage turkey at, on the holidays. You have to be really careful to make sure what you’re getting is the real deal because “heritage” has become kind of this buzzword now. And so people slap “heritage” onto something, and the consumer unknowingly buys something that is just a commercial animal that’s been crossed with the heritage [00:25:00] breed. So it’s got a different color, but it’s not the real deal. So if you buy a heritage turkey and it’s got huge breasts, that’s probably not a heritage bird, probably a cross, but it’s being sold as heritage cuz maybe it’s solid black or bronze or some other color and the buyer is unaware.

We see that a lot with chickens too. A lot of folks are doing pasture raised chicken with commercial broiler crosses that are red or black or what have you. Because they’re not white and fat like Cornish crosses, people think, oh, it’s a heritage bird. No, it’s not. So, yeah, so use the products and visit the farms. A lot of times they have agritourism, and you can come and visit farms and see what they’re doing. So there’s all kinds of ways you can support conservative breeds.

[00:25:52] Resources and Grants for Heritage-Breed Farmers

Kenny Coogan: Let’s say, I love the Dutch Hookbill ducks. And I think there’s not a lot of them. And [00:26:00] let’s say I like really wanna get into it, and I wanna get like 50 on my farm. Does the Livestock Conservancy provide funding or help find grants for a farmer who wants to really like invest their land and their time and resources into a breed?

Jeannette Beranger: We do have a micro grants program, but it’s typically catered towards people that are already doing good work with breeds, and they’re not typically given to people that wanna get started in heritage breeds. Gotta have some skin in the game. Gotta prove that this isn’t just something that’s gonna come and go, that you’ve been working with the breed for a little while.

So, say Dutch Hookbills. You get a start in them and then you realize, oh, I need to get some outside blood in. You can apply for a grant, and that could help you source ducklings that you need to bring in from Oregon that’s gonna cost you an arm and a leg to bring over. Yeah, we can fund things like [00:27:00] that. Or if you wanna expand your breeding program and need to purchase more fencing or bring electricity out to your pens that’ll be a game changer for a breeding program.

We had a really successful grant recipient last year that built breeding pens for her Cotton Patch geese. And prior to having those pens, she only had maybe 40% or 50% survival rate in her goslings because the adults are just so busy fighting each other, they crush the goslings or kill each other’s goslings. And, this past year, everything that hatched, survived. That’s a game changer. And just by building a few more pens.

So that’s the kind of thing we’re looking to fund. The micro grants are now open and we’re taking applications until August 2023, until August 31st. They’re grants up to $2,000. If you go to our webpage to “Resources”, you’ll see the micro grant program. I will tell you almost every [00:28:00] grant recipient has watched the video. So if you’re gonna apply, watch the video, take notes, and the video walks you through what judges are looking for in a good grant. They’re not hard to apply for. Don’t let that intimidate you, but do make sure that you are working with one of the breeds that’s on our Conservation Priority List.

Kenny Coogan: Very good. We’re gonna take a quick break in our conversation to hear a word from our sponsor. And when we return, we will learn which heritage breeds of poultry have had a change in their status.

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And now back to our conversation with Jeannette.

[00:29:13] Threatened and Rare Chicken Breeds

Kenny Coogan: Jeannette Beranger, a senior program manager for the Livestock Conservancy. So, Jeannette, what chicken breeds have had a status change in the past year, I suppose?

Jeannette Beranger: Yeah, so we just completed a poultry census recently, and we have a few changes that we’re making. So if I go down the list here. The Ancona is one that’s gonna move from Watch to Threatened. Their numbers are down. We only found 33 private flocks out there, and there’s not much in the way of hatchery birds out there.

Another one, the Asil, that’s moving from Threatened to Critical. We only found a little over 10 flocks, and there are no Asils in hatcheries.

Another one, Brahmas [00:30:00] are going to be graduating. Their numbers are doing very, very well.

The other thing with the recent census we did, for the first time, we actually looked at color varieties too, which was really interesting. And there were some color varieties that seemed to be gone.

Buttercup is doing a little bit better. There’s a lot of ’em showing up in hatcheries and we had, I think cuz the Buttercup group has been so active lately. We found 34 breeding flock, private breeding flocks out there. So their numbers are doing a lot better between that and the hatchery population.

Campine is one that is doing pretty well, they’re gonna move to Threatened.

One that’s coming on the list that we hadn’t had before is the Japanese Bantam. We don’t typically list Bantam breeds except for old Bantams that have no large foul counterpart. And this is one. Japanese Bantam was accepted into the APA in 1883, so [00:31:00] they’ve been around here a long time. So they’re moving into the Watch category.

Kenny Coogan: And why do you think the Japanese Bantam landed on the list? Like, what do you think has happened recently?

Jeannette Beranger: Well, it’s one that wasn’t on our radar. We did a lot of talking with David Anderson, the former president of the APA. And he was the one that said, hey, you know, there are several Bantam breeds you need to look at to maybe consider. They’re old, they’ve been around the U.S. for a long time. And he’s seeing their populations that shows aren’t quite as big as they used to be. So yeah, we took a hard look at it, and if it fits, you put it in there. So Japanese Bantam is coming.

Jersey Giants are doing really well. They’re gonna move to Recovering. Again, the backyard chicken movement is really helping that particular breed.

Kenny Coogan: Was the backyard chicken movement really spiked during Covid, or just in the past 10 years?

Jeannette Beranger: I think the [00:32:00] past 10 years. Certainly there was a spike during Covid, but I think after everybody went back to work, a lot of the flocks went away. That may have been a Covid bump, but that’s about it.

Minorcas are doing really well, I think largely because of hatchery populations. And hatcheries do have a part to play in this. One of the things that we’re really interested in in this DNA study is seeing how different hatchery birds are from the private populations. And although the hatchery birds may not meet APA standard, genetically, if they’re the breed, they’re the breed. Just maybe not APA standard, but that’s something we’re hoping to answer with this DNA study.

As I said earlier, Plymouth Rock’s gonna graduate. They’re doing really, really well.

Rhode Island White is going to be moving to Watch. They seem to be doing okay. There’s a very active group of breeders out there, so I think they’re safely in [00:33:00] Watch.

So, another Bantam that’s coming on is the Rosecomb Bantam. There are very few of them out there. I know I see them in shows, but not tons of ’em out there. So that’s a breed that’s probably gonna go into Critical.

[00:33:14] Characteristics of Heritage Breed Chickens

Kenny Coogan: Can you talk about maybe the Japanese Bantam and the Rosecomb Bantam? Like, what makes them special other than how cute they look?

Jeannette Beranger: Well, the Japanese Bantam, the big challenge with them is they’re short-legged birds. If you’re breeding to breed standard, they’re selected for short legs, which can be a little challenging when it comes to the males being able to breed the females. And I think because of that challenge, they’re not the easiest breed to incubate and hatch out.

I’ve not raised them myself, so I can’t speak from experience, but I do know in talking with Japanese Bantam breeders, that that’s one of the challenges. And both of them, the [00:34:00] Japanese Bantams and Rosecombs, I mean, they’re basically created to be these beautiful little show birds. And Japanese Bantam, in particular, with that big fan tail, is just stunning to look at. And they’re bred to pose for you.

And, if you just want pet chickens around, I’m sure you could find some culls from some of the breeders that are perfectly acceptable birds. Like, I’ve got Sebright Bantams at home that, they’re my traveling chickens. It’s cuz they’re little, they’re pretty, and easy to manage. Cuz my, my Crevs, you know, when you’ve got an eight pound rooster and a five and a half pound chicken, it’s a lot of poop, a lot of space they need, whereas my Sebrights. And I just bought culls, and they’re perfectly lovely. And I say that they’re culls. You know, a really good Sebright would be even smaller than what I’ve got. But that’s all I needed. You know, I’m not breeding them, I just want them for show to bring to events and things.

So, [00:35:00] but I think Bantams, the challenge, although like with some of the game Bantams, they probably don’t have as much fertility issues, but I do know with the Japanese, that’s one of the reasons why they’re not quite as widespread.

Another that’s doing pretty well is the Sultan. They’re gonna be moving to Threatened. I think that’s definitely from backyard chicken movement. People like to have them. They’re fancy and pretty.

And, and then Yokohama is moving to Threatened, and that’s largely due to some folks in hatcheries doing some really good job with Yokohamas out there.

So that’s some of the changes with ,chickens and I can move on to some of the other breeds. It’s hard to keep this in my head. I gotta have my Excel sheets here. It’s lot of breeds.

[00:35:49] Heritage Breed Ducks and Heritage Breed Geese

Jeannette Beranger: So if we’re moving on to ducks, one that’s coming on, and this was another suggestion, taking a look at the East Indie. And that’s something we never had on the [00:36:00] list before, but they’ve been around here a long time, since 1874, and there are a lot of folks with a lot of Call ducks, but not so much East Indie. So they’re gonna be coming onto the list, actually in Critical.

Buff Orpington duck is doing really, really well. They’re gonna be moving to Watch. I think the hatcheries are cranking out quite a bit, and backyard duck eggs are a thing. People are really jumping on board with duck eggs.

Otherwise, ducks have been fairly stable. One thing that we’ve decided to finally move out of Study and into Watch is the Australian Spotted Duck. Actually, no, they’re Critical. So this is another little Bantam that was developed in the 1920s in Pennsylvania. Small population less than 200, but there’s some really dedicated people working with the Australian Spotted, and I’m hoping one of the hatcheries picks up this breed and can build numbers too.

Kenny Coogan: I mentioned [00:37:00] Dave Holderread in another podcast. Of course, we all know about his Storey’s guidebook about raising ducks and raising geese. Him and his wife retired a few years ago. Are there, not just for ducks and geese, but are there other farms currently, you know, that have like a dozen or more turkey breeds or chicken breeds or duck breeds, or is that kind of going away and people are really focusing on one or two breeds now?

Jeannette Beranger: Yes and no. Like, with Dave’s birds, Metzer Farms actually got a lot of his breeding stock, and so he’s kind of picking up the torch and, and running with it and doing a good job with it. And I think Dave still advises on selection of those breeds. That’s good news. And then there’s some other large-scale folks. I know Frank Reese is, with his poultry institute, is starting to cultivate a new generation of breeders and training people on how to select for production in heritage birds.

At [00:38:00] least for ducks, things are kind of cruising okay.

And as we move on to geese, everybody’s pretty much cruising except Pomeranians. Pomeranians, we were only able to find about 35 private flocks out there. And with Gerald Donnelly passing up in Canada, he was a big breeder of them. We’re moving them from Threatened to Critical. That was the only change in goose breeds.

Kenny Coogan: Now when you say there’s 35 flocks, can a flock be just two birds?

Jeannette Beranger: Well, we did look at flock size. I can actually tell you. Yeah, we got some great data out of this. And by the way, all the data is on our website, so you can take a look at at some of the numbers.

But for Pomeranians, there were, let’s see, 25 flocks that were just one to five birds, three flocks that were five to 10. Two flocks that were 10 to 15, one flock 15 to 20, 2 [00:39:00] flocks that were 20 to 25, and two flocks that were 25 to 30. So the biggest flocks were 25 to 30, and there were only two of those.

Kenny Coogan: I like love Dutch Hookbill ducks. And I know we’re talking about geese, but I wanna go back to something you said about colors. Dutch Hookbills, you can have a bibbed one, you can have a solid brown one, you can have a black one. How would, if somebody gets 10 Dutch Hookbill ducklings, but they’re all different colors, is that good for the breed? Or should somebody really focus on the bibbed ones?

Jeannette Beranger: Well, with the Dutch Hookbill, they’re not APA standard.

Kenny Coogan: Yeah. So it’s, so in order to do that, you would need to have like 50 of one color at a show to get ’em standardized, is that correct?

Jeannette Beranger: Well, it’s more complicated than that. It’s really quite an endeavor to get a breed accepted. You’ve gotta have, and I don’t know the specifics, you’d have to go to the APA [00:40:00] website. But my understanding is that you’ve gotta have, first of all, you have to have that color perfected so that it’s not just a fluke, that it’ll reproduce predictably, and that characteristics are really tight. Cuz the last thing APA wants to do is allow acceptance of a breed that’s not ready for prime time.

And then you have to have a certain amount of people showing a certain amount of birds at X amount of shows. And I know like the Chocolate turkey, they’ve been working on getting them boarded for years, and I think they’re finally coming on maybe this year? I can’t remember what the status is of them. But I do know the people that have been working on Chocolates have been working hard for at least five or seven years or more, perfecting the color, getting more birds out there, and then getting people to show. So it’s quite involved. You can’t just make a color and then get it accepted. It takes a [00:41:00] lot more than that.

The APA is pretty strict about that, and I think they should, because perfecting a color takes real hard work and a lot of time, and a lot of culling. If you do the work, then yeah, you could possibly do it.

Kenny Coogan: So is The Livestock Conservancy. When we’re saving the Dutch Hookbill duck, we don’t really care about the color as of yet because it’s not in the APA?

Jeannette Beranger: That’s correct.

[00:41:26] Heritage Turkey-Breeds Status Update

Jeannette Beranger: The last category is turkeys. I could say everybody’s status quo. They’re doing okay. We don’t have any one breed that is backsliding, and I think this, again, is people wanting to raise their own meat. There’s also several very large flocks that are being developed in Mississippi that have helped some quite a bit. Breeding numbers are up. And again, Frank Reese has a big role to play in that, cuz he’s doing a great job with his birds and cultivating the next generation.

[00:41:59] Resources to Learn More

Kenny Coogan: [00:42:00] Now, in addition to rare and endangered poultry breeds, the Livestock Conservancy studies and promotes cattle, horse, goat, sheep, pig, rabbit, and donkey breeds.

Jeannette Beranger: Yes.

Kenny Coogan: Where can listeners learn more about the Livestock Conservancy?

Jeannette Beranger: Get on our website. It’s all there. We also have very active social media accounts. You know, Facebook and Instagram, and we have a YouTube channel. We’ve got a lot of stuff out there. And the other thing is we’re in office. So if you have a question and you can’t find the answer, pick up the phone and call us. We will answer the phone. We do answer emails. Might not get to it right now, but we make it a point to get back to everybody. We like to talk about animals. It’s a real pleasure to do this kind of work and love to talk about it.

Kenny Coogan: Excellent. And the website is www.LivestockConservancy.org.

Jeannette Beranger: Correct.

Kenny Coogan: Thank you so much, Jeannette, for speaking with us. Our conversation on rare and endangered [00:43:00] poultry breeds has been very enlightening.

Jeannette Beranger: Yeah, I, I hope I’ve helped a bit. I do wanna say one more thing, and that’s we not only help owners, but we also help breed clubs, and we’ve just finished up a training webinar series on cultivating leadership for breed organizations.

So if you have a breed club and you really wanna push it to the next level, it’s a 9-module series, and we talk about everything from bylaws to cultivating members to communications to registries. And if you really wanna take it to the next level, this series is perfect and it’s pertinent for any species. We even have some dog clubs that have taken the series, and it’s really good stuff. You know, for breeds that have really functional breed clubs, they don’t need us so much. So we want the breed clubs to do really well.

Kenny Coogan: Thank you, Jeannette. That sounds like a great resource.

We thank you, [00:44:00] the listener, for joining our podcast and encourage you to share it with your friends, colleagues, and family. To listen to more podcasts and to learn more, visit our website, www.MotherEarthNews.com. You can also follow our social media platforms from that link and ask questions for future podcasts. And remember, no matter how brown your thumb is, you can always cultivate kindness.

[00:44:28] Podcast Credits

John Moore: You’ve just heard our podcast about poultry breeds and how to support them.

You can reach us at Podcast@OgdenPubs.com with any comments or suggestions.

Our podcast production team includes Jessica Mitchell, John Moore, and Kenny Coogan.

Music for this episode is “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw.

This Mother Earth News and Friends podcast is a production of Ogden Publications. [00:45:00] Learn more about us at www.MotherEarthNews.com.

[00:45:05] Brinsea Ad

John Moore: Thanks again to Brinsea, our sponsor for this Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. You, too, can experience the Brinsea difference and maximize your hatch rates with Brinsea incubators that precisely monitor temperature and humidity and are made of antimicrobial materials. Brinsea ships worldwide and provides stellar customer support to answer all your questions. Hatch your chicks with Brinsea, the leader in innovative incubation research. Learn more at www.Brinsea.com.

Until next time, don’t forget to love your Mother.

Meet Jeannette Beranger

Jeannette Beranger is the Senior Program Manager for The Livestock Conservancy and has more than 30 years’ experience working as an animal professional in zoological and non-profit institutions. She uses that knowledge to plan and implement breed conservation programs for the Conservancy. She’s an active lecturer, writer, and photographer, and she’s also co-author on the best-selling books An Introduction to Heritage Breeds and Managing Breeds for a Secure Future. Recently, she was named one of Country Women Magazine’s “45 Amazing Country Woman” for her work in conserving endangered breeds and as one of the Grow Network’s “Top 14 Women Leading the Natural Food Movement.” At home, she practices what she preaches and maintains a heritage breeds farm with a focus on critically endangered Crevecoeur chickens. You can get in touch with Jeannette at Info@LivestockConservancy.org.

Additional Resources

Thanks to Brinsea for sponsoring this episode!

The Livestock Conservancy

Conservation Priority List

Our Podcast Team

Jessica Mitchell, John Moore, and Kenny Coogan
Music: “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw

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Ogden Publications strives to inspire “can-do communities,” which may have different locations, backgrounds, beliefs, and ideals. The viewpoints and lifestyles expressed within Ogden Publications articles are not necessarily shared by the editorial staff or policies but represent the authors’ unique experiences.